Woolwich soldier killed (was "Did cops just shoot 2 dead in woolwich?")

[xenon]

I mean, we should have communicated with each other, someone taken the lead, ran over the road and mobbed him. But most peple were stood around like WTF.

 

[stuff_it]

And fair play, in many ways. Not an unpleasant word to say about the lady. Just totally at odds with my own policy when faced with a meat cleaver wielding murderer. Pretty sure the official advice in such a situation isn't to do this. Its to save your own skin, and then those of those around you. In that order. Leave the talking down to the police. She really is quite lucky not to be dead.

There was, to be fair, no way to know that these men were more woman and child friendly than your average run of the mill terrorist.

Their apology for women and children having to see it makes me wonder if that may be part of the reason that they chose to attack one individual soldier (that they could tell themselves counted as a combatant) rather than an indiscriminate attack.

I mean, we should have communicated with each other, someone taken the lead, ran over the road and mobbed him. But most peple were stood around like WTF.

After you mate.

 

[xenon]

There was, to be fair, no way to know that these men were more woman and child friendly than your average run of the mill terrorist.

Their apology for women and children having to see it makes me wonder if that may be part of the reason that they chose to attack one individual soldier (that they could tell themselves counted as a combatant) rather than an indiscriminate attack.


After you mate.

That's it isn't it. I was up the side of the building having a piss and came back to the group stood outside and my mate told me what was happening. I was like, is anyone gonna do anything... We should do something... I wasn't gonna run over there by myself, that's for sure even if i was capable / braver.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

This is horrible and I just don't understand it, how is it that all these people didn't know about them before? It's not like there haven't been other terrorist attacks. I'm going to hope that a lot of these people just had a morbid curiousity about what the EDL were going to say rather than were indicating any support...

Good question. My tuppence : There was a time when the main EDL page had upwards of 80k "likes" (ok -the curious, the antis, the multiple alts included but still....) LOL I remember one Lennon interview where in typical humble fashion he talked about being the leader of 80,000 people.

Then one St Georges Day 2 or 3 years back the page got fucked over, can't remember if it was Anonymous or Z Company (right name?).

By then the decline had started and they never got the numbers anywhere near back (20 - 25k - would be a guess, there are EDL watchers around who will have sharper memories than I)

It's a reasonable guess that a large contingent of the post Woolwich increase is people who disappeared at the hack and never went back.

 

[stuff_it]

Good question. My tuppence : There was a time when the main EDL page had upwards of 80k "likes" (ok -the curious, the antis, the multiple alts included but still....) LOL I remember one Lennon interview where in typical humble fashion he talked about being the leader of 80,000 people.

Then one St Georges Day 2 or 3 years back the page got fucked over, can't remember if it was Anonymous or Z Company (right name?).

By then the decline had started and they never got the numbers anywhere near back (20 - 25k - would be a guess, there are EDL watchers around who will have sharper memories than I)

It's a reasonable guess that a large contingent of the post Woolwich increase is people who disappeared at the hack and never went back.

And? It's not like they changed their views is it?

 

[Sprocket.]

Here's an angle we've not considered yet. Guess who blames this on us being being soft with THEGAYS?

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/05/2...error-killing-on-uk-acceptance-of-gay-people/

Tornadoes forecast in London on Thursday afternoon?

 

[N_igma]

Someone on Facebook said 'send them all back'. I asked 'where?' Still waiting on a reply.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

And? It's not like they changed their views is it?

Well I was only giving an opinion, no need to ask "and?" really, I was just speaking to your good question. Perhaps the opinions were more buried or mollified than "changed", as is the case with the general atmosphere of hate against Muslims. We've had a bit of a break from it really - the 2 Minute Hate stuff has focussed more on the disgusting poor, who have taken all the money.

 

[dylanredefined]

The police do not normally shoot to wound. I wonder why they did so in this case?

Perhaps there will be answers to the obvious questions, which would not be the case if they had been killed.

Police shoot to stop. If they shoot you and then you fall down they can't shoot you again they have to justify each shoot. While the army is taught to keep shooting until your sure he is dead and then if he hasn't surrendered a couple more is fine just to make sure he isn't faking being dead.
If they had tasers they might well have used those. As taking life is supposedly the last resort.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

Sorry if this has been covered before, but I missed most of this yesterday - can someone explain why this attack is being classed as terrorism? There's nothing on BBC or the last few pages of this thread to explain it.

 

[pinkmonkey]

Sorry if this has been covered before, but I missed most of this yesterday - can someone explain why this attack is being classed as terrorism? There's nothing on BBC or the last few pages of this thread to explain it.

I read that one of the attackers had been 'radicalised' by some banned Islamic terror group. Speculation at this stage, though. Like many of these incidents, I think it's more an act of random lunacy. They get riled up by some group or other, but when it comes down to it, they act alone.

 

[dylanredefined]

Sorry if this has been covered before, but I missed most of this yesterday - can someone explain why this attack is being classed as terrorism? There's nothing on BBC or the last few pages of this thread to explain it.

Terrorism is defined as using violence or intimidation in pursuit of political aims.
They used violence and then went round telling people why they did it. Pretty much makes them terrorists. Wether they are part of a group or it was just the two of them we will have to wait and see.

 

[tommers]

Sorry if this has been covered before, but I missed most of this yesterday - can someone explain why this attack is being classed as terrorism? There's nothing on BBC or the last few pages of this thread to explain it.

There's a video of one of them saying that this is war, you people are doomed, linking it to wars against Muslims etc. Apparently they shouted allahu Akbar as they attacked. That kind of stuff.

 

[gabi]

The guardian eye-witness account is fucking hilarious. sorry. but im not in the uk at the moment and am slightly homesick for it. i actually giggled reading that. the british....

standing over a half decapitated man, she asks the perp if theres anything else she can do for him before her bus leaves. then finds time to whinge about getting dropped off at the wrong stop. classic.

 

[Pickman's model]

Most of them are fairly biddable.

What's that got to do with anything?

 

[Pickman's model]

The guardian eye-witness account is fucking hilarious. sorry. but im not in the uk at the moment and am slightly homesick for it. i actually giggled reading that. the british....

standing over a half decapitated man, she asks the perp if theres anything else she can do for him before her bus leaves. then finds time to whinge about getting dropped off at the wrong stop. classic.

If she was proper british she'd have been phlegmatick about being dropped at the wrong stop

 

[Pickman's model]

I'll be monitoring this post to see who 'likes' it. Couldn't wish for a more effective cunt detector. Must say I'm a bit surprised already.

you do that

 

[cyprusclean]

View attachment 32885

Another WTF image.

"yeah, just standing here chatting to the guy with the bloodied knife in his hand"

She's just been on morning TV.

 

[girasol]

Why is it lunacy when a civilian does it, but when it's backed by a government it's ok? I think these two men were perfectly sane, they just believed the bullshit and became radicalized. I doubt very much they are 'insane' or even psychotic as some people are saying.

 

[cesare]

always thought round woolwich, bermondsey more nf and the bnp heartland - in london terms - always been more welling when they had the bookshop there, and barking & dagenham.

Yes, you can virtually track it by the money. Welling's posher.

 

[frogwoman]

A mate of mine I sometimes go out with occasionally (although not very close tbf) has posted some stuff that's a bit - "it's not about religion, it's about illegal immigrants coming to this country and wanting to kill us all" it's weird as well because she's a traveller originally

 

[frogwoman]

I'm wondering whether to say something?

 

[friedaweed]

Police shoot to stop. If they shoot you and then you fall down they can't shoot you again they have to justify each shoot. While the army is taught to keep shooting until your sure he is dead and then if he hasn't surrendered a couple more is fine just to make sure he isn't faking being dead.
If they had tasers they might well have used those. As taking life is supposedly the last resort.

They all carry tazers on their person as part of their kit. Looks like it was straight to the hip. Given the circumstances the sidearm was the correct weapon of choice.

On the car they carry a
Remington shot gun (For animal destruction)
A baton gun
Two rifles
all in a locked safe

On their person they carry
A glock pistol (Primarily to defend the car with in case it comes under attack)
Tazer
Pepper spray
Thunder flash
Extendable batton


Not many fire arms plod actually get to shoot anyone. It'll have been quite a traumatic experience for both coppers I would guess.

 

[Roadkill]

Now confirmed that the victim was a 'member of the armed forces.'

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I've only read up to this post before replying, so apols if it's been dealt with already, but why've you got such a downer on crackheads?

Cos they do my head in with their agressive, irrational, paranoid behaviour.

 

[bi0boy]

Sorry but I laughed at the police at the end here, screaming and then charging over a hedge

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

 

[paulhackett]

 

[brogdale]

No comment from Blair yet?

 

[Streathamite]

tbh, I'm surprised the EDL haven't tried building a base in that part of SE London before. Woolwich, Welling, Plumstead and Charlton have always been notorious for a local fash presence

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

True, but on reading the attempted beheading of a soldier, my first thought wouldn't be "Fucking crackheads", as Banhof's seemed to be. There's loads of crackheads running around up to all kinds of nonsense. Heads seldom get chopped off in your average crackheads day to day milieu though.

The similarity to the pair of loons who wanted to lop off Joss Stone's bonce drove my thoughts...

And if this pair have no history of drug abuse I'll throw a pony at the server fund!