Wonky 18th century pub, The Crooked House, mysteriously burns to the ground after new owners take over

[WouldBe]

Why are they giving them 3 years to do it?

Not quite as straightforward as building a house, but still shouldn't take 3 years.

 

[Pickman's model]

Why are they giving them 3 years to do it?

should be giving them 3 years inside if not more. as well as the rebuilding order.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Sadly, I'll be surprised if it ever happens.

There are at least a couple in London where they've been ordered to rebuild and it has happened - there's the Greyhound in Sydenham and there was one somewhere over towards Hampstead iirc. So it does happen, although I don't think either were exactly zippy about it.

 

[Elpenor]

Why are they giving them 3 years to do it?

Better for the builders to have a target

 

[cupid_stunt]

There are at least a couple in London where they've been ordered to rebuild and it has happened - there's the Greyhound in Sydenham and there was one somewhere over towards Hampstead iirc. So it does happen, although I don't think either were exactly zippy about it.

I know, but these people are slippery buggers, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some jiggling pokey resulting in the company being folded.

 

[belboid]

It took the Carlton Tavern six years to be rebuilt, and they ended up doing a pretty good job of it

Rising from the rubble: London pub rebuilt brick by brick after illegal bulldozing

Carlton Tavern reopens six years after planning ruling that campaigners hope will prevent developers demolishing other sites

www.theguardian.com

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Sadly, I'll be surprised if it ever happens.

I wonder if the police are getting nearer to charging anyone.

"Staffordshire Police is treating the blaze as arson, five men and one woman were arrested in connection with the fire and remain on bail."

 

[lazythursday]

I know, but these people are slippery buggers, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some jiggling pokey resulting in the company folding.

Exactly what I was thinking. I'm pretty sure the previous pub rebuilds have been done by more conventional developers than ATE Farms appear to be. This is great news but I just don't think it will happen.

 

[StoneRoad]

I do hope that the council's "rebuild it, exactly" order is obeyed in both letter and spirit.

Sadly, although some rebuilds have been done I can think of several ways these slippery buggers can avoid the situation.
Hopefully, the council issued the order "jointly & severally" to the humans and business entities involved.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Good for the Council. I always thought that the arson was just a tad convenient.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Good for the Council. I always thought that the arson was just a tad convenient.

Now, now - let he who is without a sizeable insurance policy and outline planning approval cast the first oily rag and jerry can of accelerant

 

[Wilf]

I know, but these people are slippery buggers, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some jiggling pokey resulting in the company being folded.

Wondered about that, particularly as the order is (seemingly) against a company, not the two twats by name:

The pub's owners, ATE Farms Limited, have 30 days to appeal and the notice must be complied with within three years.

(from the Beeb story).

Still, anything that upsets the pair of shits is mighty fine.

 

[mr steev]

I do hope that the council's "rebuild it, exactly" order is obeyed in both letter and spirit.

Sadly, although some rebuilds have been done I can think of several ways these slippery buggers can avoid the situation.
Hopefully, the council issued the order "jointly & severally" to the humans and business entities involved.

Ive just seen that it's been issued to ATE farms Ltd and the 2 directors (including the woman who stepped down a few weeks ago)

 

[bluescreen]

Ive just seen that it's been issued to ATE farms Ltd and the 2 directors (including the woman who stepped down a few weeks ago)

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Ive just seen that it's been issued to ATE farms Ltd and the 2 directors (including the woman who stepped down a few weeks ago)

Yeah, it's down to them as actual people, rather than as directors of a company.


Oh and this:

"if the pub’s owners filed for bankruptcy, then anyone who bought the site would need to comply with the rebuilding order."

So no getting out of it that way.

 

[spitfire]

And, as a director, if you haven't carried out your directorial responsibilities properly then you can become personally liable.

As I nearly found out to my own cost recently...

 

[marty21]

It took the Carlton Tavern six years to be rebuilt, and they ended up doing a pretty good job of it

Rising from the rubble: London pub rebuilt brick by brick after illegal bulldozing

Carlton Tavern reopens six years after planning ruling that campaigners hope will prevent developers demolishing other sites

www.theguardian.com

I have been there, pre & post demolition/rebuild - they did a great job with it.

 

[gawkrodger]

So as this is pretty much my job, few quick responses.

This is pretty much the best result which could have been hoped for in the circumstances so fair play, especially as the local authority who've issued it are so small. Turning it around in around 6 months is also quick. It's the strongest form of enforcement notice

Precisely to stop people just sticking the company into liquidation it also will be issued to named individuals. They will struggle to sell the site as it would also be passed onto whomever bought it.

3 years is what the legislation requires. If a serious attempt is made to rebuild, the recipients of the order can reasinably easily get time extensions, though will be monitored closely and there are fines for unresonable delays

An appeal can be made within 30 days. I'd be frankly shocked if they were able to succesfully appeal. Companies with much greater resources have failed in appeals and given the publicity on this case (and the fact that the owners have so blatantly broken planning law repeatedy) it's very unlikely.

If they don't re-build (and I suspect cost of re-build could hit 8 figures) then they face either a fine or prison. The fine banding is the highest in legislation - there is no maximum ceiling but in case law it's normally pegged against the estimated cost of the rebuild. Believe the jail sentence if they don't pay the fine is 3-5 years

TLDR: the owners are fucked

 

[gawkrodger]

Though tbh wouldn't be surprised if they sell their house and do a runner out of the country

 

[skyscraper101]

Good article on Bloomberg this morning.

Britain Keeps Knocking Down and Rebuilding Historic Pubs

Stringent preservation laws and community affection for local pubs has obliged several property owners to reconstruct historic buildings after demolishing them.

www.bloomberg.com

It cites the destruction of the Firestone factory in Brentford as one of the instances where the opportunity was missed to save a beautiful building. I wasn't aware of this until now.

This somewhat militant attitude stems partly from the bitter experience of losses like the destruction of London’s Firestone Factory in 1980: The owners of the palatial art deco facility demolished it over a national holiday, just before a preservation order could be issued.

 

[Silas Loom]

I’d give any number of wonky pubs for that Firestone factory. Beautiful.

 

[editor]

It's going to be a tough - and expensive (LOL!) - rebuilding job:

Rebuilding a 260-year-old building that was burned to a shell and then bulldozed to a pile of rubble is no mean feat in any scenario. But rebuilding the Crooked House pub, a lopsided structure that had sunk 4ft into the ground, is even trickier.

“It’s a bit of a monkey’s puzzle, with no right angles,” said Stephen Levrant, who runs a heritage architecture firm. “Because everything is out of kilter and you’ve got gravity acting in a completely different way, it will have to be approached as if it was quite a sophisticated modern structure.”


Experts say rebuilding the pub in its original wonky form will be tough and probably very costly, but not impossible.

‘It’s a monkey’s puzzle’: is it possible to rebuild the Crooked House pub?

The venue’s owners have been told to put it back to its wonky glory after it was gutted by a fire and bulldozed

www.theguardian.com

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Though tbh wouldn't be surprised if they sell their house and do a runner out of the country

They own a physical business in the UK that turns over millions per year. Whilst this rebuild will hurt them, they won't walk away from their business to escape it.

 

[muscovyduck]

"probably very costly, but not impossible" ah yes, that's the sweet spot

 

[DaveCinzano]

"probably very costly, but not impossible" ah yes, that's the sweet spot

Pain but without the respite of passing out

 

[two sheds]

Owners of Crooked House pub appeal against order to rebuild

ATE Farms had been issued with enforcement notice for unlawful demolition after fire gutted building

www.theguardian.com

wankers

 

[cupid_stunt]

Owners of Crooked House pub appeal against order to rebuild

ATE Farms had been issued with enforcement notice for unlawful demolition after fire gutted building

www.theguardian.com

wankers

Hardly surprising, TBH, but I doubt they will win, just clock up more costs.

 

[rich!]

Hardly surprising, TBH, but I doubt they will win, just clock up more costs.

might buy them long enough for some donations to the ruling party to turn into a change in the law... I mean, at this point what do they have to lose by bribery?

 

[WouldBe]

might buy them long enough for some donations to the ruling party to turn into a change in the law... I mean, at this point what do they have to lose by bribery?

Liberty?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

They’re obviously going to appeal as is their right.
But it will just end up costing them more in the long run unless they start folding companies and go bankrupt.