Why is 'browning up' acceptable in Hollywood?

[Belushi]

Sure why not have a white Egyption, a black Roman.

Neither of those would necessarily be unhistorical, if you were portraying say Cleopatra or Septimus Severus.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Neither of those would necessarily be unhistorical, if you were portraying say Cleopatra or Septimus Severus.

What was Cleopatra's skin color?

 

[Belushi]

What was Cleopatra's skin color?

What's the skin colour of most Caucasians?

 

[butchersapron]

What was Cleopatra's skin color?

Being italian/macedonian, do you think she was nubian?

 

[Orang Utan]

WTF is a phenotype?

 

[butchersapron]

WTF is a phenotype?

What you look like. People use it bamboozle others in debate. To scientise their posts.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Being italian/macedonian, do you think she was nubian?

As Rutita has pointed out, a broad range of phenotypes is possible within different nationalities [and that's what 'Italian' 'Macedonian' and 'Nubian' are, although 'Nubian' is best described as a tribe]. It isn't either/or..... white/black.

 

[Belushi]

I think I said that back on the first page.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

... or to descientize the post: it's possible for people of the same nationality to look quite different from one another, and to have varying gradations of skin color.

 

[butchersapron]

... or to descientize the post: it's possible for people of the same nationality to look quite different from one another, and to have varying gradations of skin color.

Yeah, but not cleo-fucking-patra.

 

[butchersapron]

As Rutita has pointed out, a broad range of phenotypes is possible within different nationalities [and that's what 'Italian' 'Macedonian' and 'Nubian' are, although 'Nubian' is best described as a tribe]. It isn't either/or..... white/black.

You reckon, given the nubian history, there might be a single word of comment on her not looking like the white ruling class did - anywhere? At home? Abroad? From her schooldays? Nope, not a word.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

The best onscreen cleopatra was Amanda Barrie

 

[Treacle Toes]

WTF is a phenotype?

I explained what I meant a few pages back. I quote this now so that the pompous rewriting of the history of the thread and how the term has been used and explained falls flat on it's arse.

I use it here to mean the way that someone looks...for example my phenotype means I could be believed to be a number of different nationalities.

 

[8ball]

What you look like. People use it bamboozle others in debate. To scientise their posts.

Useful enough in that it separates the visual signifiers of race from the cultural elements.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

You reckon, given the nubian history, there might be a single word of comment on her not looking like the white ruling class did - anywhere? At home? Abroad? From her schooldays? Nope, not a word.

The Ptolemys were Greek. Once again, a broad range in skin tone gradation - as with most nationalities. There is no 'black skin/white skin' borderline drawn somewhere in the Mediterranean.

 

[butchersapron]

The Ptolemys were Greek. Once again, a broad range in skin tone gradation - as with most nationalities. There is no 'black skin/white skin' borderline drawn somewhere in the Mediterranean.

As i said, they were macedonians (whether you count that as greek is irrelevant) - and no, a pretty strict skin tone gradation, as befits a ruling elite and as recognised at the time. There are quite clear lines drawn about historical evidence and logical inference though.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I explained what I meant a few pages back. I quote this now so that the pompous rewriting of the history of the thread and how the term has been used and explained falls flat on it's arse.

You're bamboozling everyone damn you. A debate is no place for facts.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I will admit to being slightly bamboozled by the invention of the word 'scientise' though.

 

[Orang Utan]

Obviously what he is saying is that a subset of people are broadly similar enough in their overall appearance to get away with playing them in a film. You could probably finesse that statement by adding "...in the eyes of the US cinema-going public".

Johnny Canuck is right, though - there's as much sense in saying "that white guy shouldn't be playing an Egyptian" as there is in saying "that Pakistani guy can play an Egyptian". Either anyone can play any role, or everyone should only play roles suitable for their birthplace/ethnicity/gender/hair color/etc.

I don't think that's too much to ask for. I was watching the first Harry Potter film and the noticed the Weasley twins were non-gingers in wigs or with dye jobs. That also pissed me off.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

What's the skin colour of most Caucasians?

What is a 'Caucasian', and do they all have the same skin color?

Walking down the street, seems like almost everyone is just a little bit different from each other.

 

[butchersapron]

What is a 'Caucasian', and do they all have the same skin color?

Walking down the street, seems like almost everyone is just a little bit different from each other.

Therefore historical evidence and the rule of logical inference DO NOT EXIST.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I looked up 'Caucasian':

Caucasian

1. of or relating to one of the traditional divisions of humankind, covering a broad group of peoples from Europe, western Asia, and parts of India and North Africa.

Europe, western Asia, parts of India and North Africa..... all with the same skin color?

 

[Belushi]

What is a 'Caucasian', and do they all have the same skin color?

Walking down the street, seems like almost everyone is just a little bit different from each other.

Like I said, already asked this question back on page one.

Good to see you back Johnny but do try and read the threads before wading in this time.

 

[butchersapron]

What is a 'Caucasian', and do they all have the same skin color?

Walking down the street, seems like almost everyone is just a little bit different from each other.

In fact, the past didn't happen either. Because some people look the same. Nothing happened. No one did anything either. Certainly not people who looked different.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Like I said, already asked this question back on page one.

Good to see you back Johnny but do try and read the threads before wading in this time.

I did read the thread; but I missed any reference to Cleopatra's skin color back on page one.

 

[butchersapron]

Whilst my johnny gently googles. And googles and googles.

 

[butchersapron]

I did read the thread; but I missed any reference to Cleopatra's skin color back on page one.

Oh god.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Whilst my johnny gently googles. And googles and googles.

It's a little bit heartwarming - well, at least it's familiar - to see that I have the same effect on you as always. Like grass pollen to an allergic person - from normal; to sneezing, sputtering and drooling, all in a matter of minutes.

 

[butchersapron]

It's a little bit heartwarming - well, at least it's familiar - to see that I have the same effect on you as always. Like grass pollen to an allergic person - from normal; to sneezing, sputtering and drooling, all in a matter of minutes.

Frauds/dissemblers/liars/twisters/bullshitters - all get the same consistent reaction from me. Good company you're keeping.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

To sum up my position, apart from the semantic wrangling: I think it's a safe bet to say that many people of colour would prefer a society where typical societal decisions were made without reference to skin color as a factor with any weight, other things being equal. Decisions like, rental or sale of property, use of public transportation, job hiring and advancement, amongst others.