Why is 'browning up' acceptable in Hollywood?

[Orang Utan]

I'm not sure how that relates to the OP, Johnny. And the semantic wrangling was also irrelevant

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I'm not sure how that relates to the OP, Johnny. And the semantic wrangling was also irrelevant

Because the fuss being raised - apparent in this thread - about actors of one race portraying characters of another, even when the purpose for doing so isn't to somehow degrade or demean the race of the character - shows how far we must go before achieving a society where skin color truly doesn't matter.

 

[butchersapron]

And here's bono with the sports...

 

[Fez909]

Because the fuss being raised - apparent in this thread - about actors of one race portraying characters of another, even when the purpose for doing so isn't to somehow degrade or demean the race of the character - shows how far we must go before achieving a society where skin color truly doesn't matter.

By "blacking up", yes you are demeaning the race of the character.

You're saying it's vital to have an actor who looks a certain way, but you can't find anyone good enough who looks that way naturally.

 

[JTG]

Has anyone mentioned that Ben Kingsley is half Indian yet?

Hardly a suitable choice to play the French Jean-Luc Picard

 

[FNG]

So many films, including Ridley Scott's newest Biblical epic, Exodus: Gods And Kings feature heavily made up white actors playing brown characters.
Why is this acceptable? I would have thought it was frowned upon nowadays.

Why does this financial pulling power inequality exist do you think?

This has probably already been answered,and i am sure you are aware that it has its roots in segregated movie theatres, its why a whole generation of talented black actors, were limited to being cast in low budget blaxploitation movies or roles that were considered non threatening to the status quo.That informal segregated casting policies outlasted official state legislated segregation is an indicator of the conservative nature of hollywood

I dont think its a coincidence that this movie which i would expect to make most of its boxoffice in the Bible belt of middle america has reverted to type.

 

[FNG]

To sum up my position, apart from the semantic wrangling: I think it's a safe bet to say that many people of colour would prefer a society where typical societal decisions were made without reference to skin color as a factor with any weight, other things being equal. Decisions like, rental or sale of property, use of public transportation, job hiring and advancement, amongst others.

Might see the flaw in that arguement JC

 

[Athos]

No. I haven't said any of that. I have said that it's not ok to black up.

Then you don't seem to have thought through the consequences of your position.

 

[Thimble Queen]

Then you don't seem to have thought through the consequences of your position.

I'm not going to talk to you about this anymore.

 

[Athos]

I'm not going to talk to you about this anymore.

Thanks.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Lucky this sort of thing would never happen in wonderful, cosmopolitan Brixton isn't it?

http://nishaexplainsitall.wordpress.com/2014/11/03/blackface-rears-its-ugly-head-in-brixton/

 

[ddraig]

fuck sake! wtf?

 

[tendril]

If a remake of Tootsie was planned [heaven forbid], would the legislation decree that a woman must be selected for Dustin Hoffman's role?

tbf, Tootsie was about a man playing a woman's roll.....

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Lucky this sort of thing would never happen in wonderful, cosmopolitan Brixton isn't it?

http://nishaexplainsitall.wordpress.com/2014/11/03/blackface-rears-its-ugly-head-in-brixton/

Why doesn't that surprise me?

 

[Citizen66]

Then you don't seem to have thought through the consequences of your position.

Do you realise how patronising that sounds coming from a white person to a POC who has stated that they're offended by it?

"You shouldn't be offended, you just haven't thought this through properly!"

 

[Athos]

Do you realise how patronising that sounds coming from a white person to a POC who has stated that they're offended by it?

"You shouldn't be offended, you just haven't thought this through properly!"

Except the 'quote' isn't actually a quote.

 

[Citizen66]

The latter part is, the former is a summary of what you appear to be saying.

 

[FNG]

its bullshit the film casts POC as thieves murderers and royal butlers whilst reinforcing the centuries old concept of white divinity,yet people who point that out are the racist ones?

 

[Citizen66]

That's not a knife, this is a knife.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Hardly a suitable choice to play the French Jean-Luc Picard

It's the future. The French are extinct by them, haing all succumbed to a batch of infected snail shit sorbet.

 

[Citizen66]

That's not a knife, this is a knife.

Just in case I'm the only one who remembers shit movies from the 80s, the reference is when a (black) mugger pulls a knife and is sent fleeing for his life when the gallant and chivalrous (white) Mick 'Crocodile' Dundee pulls out a much larger hunting knife and utters the above quote.

It's funny how white actors aren't being asked to black up to pose as bit-part black villains. Its the major roles where it's suddenly a struggle to find a suitable candidate.

 

[IC3D]

The film's made for white people, all the Middle Eastern looking actors are bad guys and the black ones comedy an or action. White people need the chameleon like talent of a Zellweger, the stature of a Cruise. People of colour cannot convey this depth.

 

[Maltin]

Just in case I'm the only one who remembers shit movies from the 80s, the reference is when a (black) mugger pulls a knife and is sent fleeing for his life when the gallant and chivalrous (white) Mick 'Crocodile' Dundee pulls out a much larger hunting knife and utters the above quote.

Crocodile Dundee is not shit

 

[DotCommunist]

crocodile dundee 2&3 however, are shit.

 

[Athos]

The latter part is, the former is a summary of what you appear to be saying.

What you'd like me to be saying, for you to justify what is otherwise a strawman attack.

And, in any event, your point was ludicrous; effectively suggesting I should defer to Poptyping's opinion because (s)he happens to be a POC (of which I wasn't aware). As if black people aren't capable of woolly thinking.

Dangerous identity politics bullshit.

 

[Crispy]

crocodile dundee 2&3 however, are shit.

Holy crap, there's a 3?

 

[Citizen66]

What you'd like me to be saying, for you to justify what is otherwise a strawman attack.

And, in any event, your point was ludicrous; effectively suggesting I should defer to Poptyping's opinion because (s)he happens to be a POC (of which I wasn't aware). As if black people aren't capable of woolly thinking.

Dangerous identity politics bullshit.

How is a POC finding blacking up in Hollywood offensive 'woolly thinking' or 'dangerous identity politics bullshit'?

We're talking about a specific context here so no need to widen it to draw in identity politics. It's you telling a POC that they are wrong regarding their feelings surrounding what they perceive to be racism. Which is an astonishing position to adopt.

 

[Athos]

How is a POC finding blacking up in Hollywood offensive 'woolly thinking' or 'dangerous identity politics bullshit'?

We're talking about a specific context here so no need to widen it draw in identity politics. It's you telling a POC that they are wrong regarding racism. Which is an astonishing position to adopt.

I've already set out the basis of my disagreement with poptyping at length.

There's nothing astonishing about the fact that I don't feel obliged to defer to somebody else's opinion simply by virtue of an aspect of their identity (as opposed to the content of their ideas). The fact that you think I should is what's astonishing! And dangerous. It's typical of the identity politics bullshit that doing immeasurable harm to the left in this country.

A case in point is your focus on why my race disqualifies me from disagreeing, whilst missing the bigger issue of the way in which racist recruitment in Hollywood is largely a product of capitalism. Racism which, if you read and understand my posts, you'll see I've not denied. You'll find that my comments were about 'in principle' arguments, and were set in a hypothetical context where casting decisions were not made on a racist basis (explicit or implicit, conscious or unconscious).

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

How is a POC finding blacking up in Hollywood offensive 'woolly thinking' or 'dangerous identity politics bullshit'?

Don't think he said that; but instead said that people of any skin color are capable of being in error, or misguided.

We're talking about a specific context here so no need to widen it to draw in identity politics. It's you telling a POC that they are wrong regarding their feelings surrounding what they perceive to be racism. Which is an astonishing position to adopt

You've introduced 'feelings', when what's being discussed is opinions, or ideas. Of course feelings are personal, and not right or wrong. Ideas or opinions are, or at least should be, open to debate, regardless of what color the holder might be.

Malcolm X and Martin Luther King had markedly different views on some race issues.

 

[Citizen66]

I've already set out the basis of my disagreement with poptyping at length.

There's nothing astonishing about the fact that I don't feel obliged to defer to somebody else's opinion simply by virtue of an aspect of their identity (as opposed to the content of their ideas). The fact that you think I should is what's astonishing! And dangerous. It's typical of the identity politics bullshit that doing immeasurable harm to the left in this country.

A case in point is your focus on why my race disqualifies me from disagreeing, whilst missing the bigger issue of the way in which racist recruitment in Hollywood is largely a product of capitalism. Racism which, if you read and understand my posts, you'll see I've not denied. You'll find that my comments were about 'in principle' arguments, and were set in a hypothetical context where casting decisions were not made on a racist basis (explicit or implicit, conscious or unconscious).

Now who has the straw man? I didn't suggest that you should defer to poptyping's opinion on the basis of them being a POC (I accept you didn't know this and I only suspect it because I think I know who it is) I said it was patronising for you to suggest they hadn't thought it through, an argument that you're still adamant to continue with despite now knowing that they are a POC (poptyping hasn't corrected me otherwise).

It's like a woman complaining about sexism and all the men in the room telling her why she's wrong. Is that identity politics? I thought identity politics was organising around your identity regardless of whether you shared social or class interests with your comrades. I do think there's a place for identity politics *within* class politics where class politics (which lets face it, can be very white hetero male at times) fails to deal effectively with specific forms of bigotry.