Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Yes; and how much importance should incidentals be given, when determining which actor should get which role?
Why is 'browning up' acceptable in Hollywood?
- Thread starter Orang Utan
- Start date
Yes; and how much importance should incidentals be given, when determining which actor should get which role?
Buddy Bradley
Pantheistic solipsist
The DVD commentary on that film is hilarious. Neeley is such an old hippy, it's just him remembering all the people he used to know and calling them "man", man...
Buddy Bradley
Pantheistic solipsist
Quite a lot, IMO. If a role is written for a short bald fat man, then actors fitting that description should have a better chance of landing it. If the role is Winston Churchill, then the actor who plays him should be somewhat close in appearance, notwithstanding makeup and suspension of disbelief.
That means that if a role is for a person of colour, then the actor playing the role should more than likely match that colour. Luckily though, most screenwriters now know better than to specify race/ethnicity in their scripts. Producers and casting agents, though, have different priorities, mostly revolving around money, but also sadly sometimes affected by a misguided belief that audiences want to see white heroes and non-white villains.
spanglechick
High Empress of Dressing Up
No, not at all - I stopped watching during angry boys because of this. Tbf, he also 'browns up' for Jonah in Summer Heights High - which I ignorantly didn't realise was a race issue at the time.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Ben Kingsley is half Indian.
e2a: A billion other people have already pointed this out
andysays
Love and solidarity
A friend of mine played a mute warrior in Prince Of Persia, while Jake Gyllenhall played the lead. He could easily have played him and he wouldn't have needed any fake tan.
So is this friend of yours actually Persian/Iranian, or does he just happen to have what you/he consider a more appropriate skintone than JG?
It seems there's some pretty dodgy reductionist/essentialist thinking going on on this thread, not just by you, but by many others.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Which brings us back to the question: should these stereotypical, non-white villain roles be the roles reserved for black actors; or should we be taking to task the real injustice/inequity in the equation: the nature of the roles as written involving people of different ethnicities?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That's not very funny. It's remarkably and painfully unfunny And it's him playing black. He could do that white and be just as unfunny and you know...wrong. A choice was made.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I saw it done in the late 90s at the Derngate for school- the horrific DV was sidestepped by making it ding-for-dong tom n jerry slapstick.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Shit, unfunny, racist and offensive.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Omar Sharif has played Russian, Spanish, French, Indian and Mongolian characters as well as Arabs. Has any other actor covered so many different races I wonder?
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
Art Malik has done few too, maybe not as many as that.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
He is half Pakistani and he is always being cast as a terrorist. He has even Anglicised his name to get more work.
Buddy Bradley
Pantheistic solipsist
"Races".
Treacle Toes
Time
Do you mean nationalities?
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Not a word I usually use if I can avoid it. Fair call out.
andysays
Love and solidarity
He is half Pakistani and he is always being cast as a terrorist. He has even Anglicised his name to get more work.
So if he's "half Pakistani", why should he think he has any more of an ethnic-authenticity right to the role of a Persian than JG?
Or are you/he suggesting that all "brown" people are somehow the same? TBC, I don't think that's what you're meaning to say, but that's how it's in danger of coming across.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Yul Brynner: King of Siam; Ramses in The Ten Commandments; a Russian in a number of films; King Solomon; a Native American in Kings of the Sun; a robot in Westworld; an American in Magnificent Seven; a half-Japanese person in Flight from Ashiya; a German in Triple Cross; he tried out for Spartacus, but didn't make it.
Treacle Toes
Time
Buddy Bradley
Pantheistic solipsist
Obviously what he is saying is that a subset of people are broadly similar enough in their overall appearance to get away with playing them in a film. You could probably finesse that statement by adding "...in the eyes of the US cinema-going public".
Johnny Canuck is right, though - there's as much sense in saying "that white guy shouldn't be playing an Egyptian" as there is in saying "that Pakistani guy can play an Egyptian". Either anyone can play any role, or everyone should only play roles suitable for their birthplace/ethnicity/gender/hair color/etc.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Yul Brynner is an interesting case, actually. He was apparently half Swiss, half Tatar.
Going by all these new film rules - he wouldn't be able to get a role to play anybody!
Going by all these new film rules - he wouldn't be able to get a role to play anybody!
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
I've not heard that word in this context before. Phenotype to me means the biolgical expression of genetic characteristics.
There is a difference between one actor playing Asian, European and Middle Eastern roles and, for example, playing a white Norwegian, A white German and a white Russian. A white Russian person that is, not one of those horrid milky vodka things I used to drink far too many of.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Yul Brynner: King of Siam; Ramses in The Ten Commandments; a Russian in a number of films; King Solomon; a Native American in Kings of the Sun; a robot in Westworld; an American in Magnificent Seven; a half-Japanese person in Flight from Ashiya; a German in Triple Cross; he tried out for Spartacus, but didn't make it.
I'm not expert on the finer points of these matters, but I don't think robots are a recognised ethnic group.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Don't be daft - most roles are open. You think that most roles are closed. How then did YB get roles?Yul Brynner is an interesting case, actually. He was apparently half Swiss, half Tatar.
Going by all these new film rules - he wouldn't be able to get a role to play anybody!
And if the wider agument is that characters should be played by people of cultural similarity (and then automatically have some cultural respect or other stuff) then why on earth should a pakistani muslim be be fitted for a role of a hebrew? Even in terms of looks (or phenotype) it's 50/50 between a typically pakistani male and that welsh bloke.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
Treacle Toes
Time
I use it here to mean the way that someone looks...for example my phenotype means I could be believed to be a number of different nationalities.
andysays
Love and solidarity
I'm not sure what we're talking about - I guess different people are clearly talking about different things.
OU seems to be attempting to argue that his "half Pakistani" mate is automatically more suited to playing a Persian character than JG, who I have just discovered (because I really wasn't bothered to check until now) has a Jewish mother and a Swedish/English father, so I suspect that the subtleties of your point about phenotypes have passed him by.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
The comment was made tongue in cheek. And given that Brynner was a popular actor with a large following, likely roles were written with him in mind, in order to cash in on his star power.
Similar threads
