Why can't we just have a 'standard' border in Northern Ireland re: Brexit

[RedStag]

The GFA is a legally binding agreement between the UK and ROI. Neither party can unilaterally renege upon the stipulations contained therein, one of which is an open border. To close the border lawfully would require he assent of the ROI, which is unforthcoming.

And I'd like to see your documentation on this point please

 

[RedStag]

And so half of that nation is ignored???

That is how the democratic system works

 

[RedStag]

Brexit: Rights, wrongs and the Good Friday Agreement

This really explains what could go wrong in terms of the GFA and how rights will change in NI once Brexit happens.

It will also explain why the GFA worked and why it cannot be messed with. It was and is based very much on copperfastening human rights and that these rights are protected by the ECHR.
There is genuine fear that these rights will be eroded by those in power when Brexit happens.

The EHCR will have no power over the UK after Brexit, so it is a moot point

 

[RedStag]

Just been listening this afternoon to brexiteers talking on the wireless about our golden age as a trading nation and how we can do it again. I look forward to restarting with piracy, theft, slavery, indentured servants, genocide, murder, walls, camps, private armies, opium trading and and G'n't with a spot of ordinary butchery as the sun sets.

Like I said earlier, would you rather be a poor villager earning 10pence a day - it would then be bye bye to your computer and Netflix for a start...think about it

 

[RedStag]

No. But as DUP leader is already talking about tweaking the GFA because of Brexit and the border issue...I think it's important enough to post it.
Did you read the article? It might explain why NI people are freaking out somewhat.

It's probably time for some tweawking of the GFA , after all, why should the views of the population of Southern Ireland and united Ireland idealists living in the North, have sway over another country's DEMOCRATIC choice

 

[RedStag]

Oh...

sorry but you seem to be disregarding half the UK?

Or are you saying that because I am Irish I should not comment?

Have your own referendum if you so desire, but the butt the F out of ours!

 

[Baronage-Phase]

That is how the democratic system works

So Scotland and NI vote no and you think fuck em cos that's ok co "democracy"?
No that's a very flawed democracy.

The EHCR will have no power over the UK after Brexit, so it is a moot point

That's the point.
People in NI fought long and hard to have human rights...let alone equal rights. They don't trust the British judicial system ... for good reasons. They have experienced it's inequality and injustice in the past. Mark my words though...ordinary British people will have their rights interfered with. Working hours...basic wage...they'll be fucked off when things go belly up. And there will be no recourse to the ECHR.

It's probably time for some tweawking of the GFA , after all, why should the views of the population of Southern Ireland and united Ireland idealists living in the North, have sway over another country's DEMOCRATIC choice

You don't understand what the GFA is of that's how you see it.
It is between the people of two areas on one island and it is between the three governments.
It is the only thing that has held peace in NI.

Have your own referendum if you so desire, but the butt the F out of ours!

You've had your referendum.

And by the way...you should really stop and think about that last phrase considering your government and your army took centuries to "butt" out of Eire.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

The quality of new posters here is really very disappointing

RedStag....Sodapop....

Pfft

 

[billbond]

The quality of new posters here is really very disappointing

RedStag....Sodapop....

Pfft

The old ones aint up to much either pfft
Dont seem to like democracy and dont seem to like people who disagree with them or have a different opinion

 

[Combustible]

That's the point.
People in NI fought long and hard to have human rights...let alone equal rights. They don't trust the British judicial system ... for good reasons. They have experienced it's inequality and injustice in the past. Mark my words though...ordinary British people will have their rights interfered with. Working hours...basic wage...they'll be fucked off when things go belly up. And there will be no recourse to the ECHR.

The minimum wage is nothing to do with the EU, nothing would stop an EU country from abolishing the minimum wage. There will still be recourse to the ECHR after leaving the EU because the ECHR is also separate to the EU.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

The old ones aint up to much either pfft
Dont seem to like democracy and dont seem to like people who disagree with them or have a different opinion

You got that right

 

[Baronage-Phase]

The minimum wage is nothing to do with the EU, nothing would stop an EU country from abolishing the minimum wage. There will still be recourse to the ECHR after leaving the EU because the ECHR is also separate to the EU.

is there a possibility that laws coukd be altered and once you've reached the Supreme Court you will encounter blocks to going further? I guess what I'm asking is- who will monitor the UK legal system and ensure it's not altered...bearing in mind that in NI it took a lot for one half of that community to gain equal rights in numbers of areas.

 

[billbond]

You got that right

Thanks i usually am

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Thanks i usually am

... like a stopped clock....

By the way...what's going to happen with ex pats living in the EU? Seeing as the banks are all sticking to EU regulations about the movement of money from outside the EU?
How are their UK pensions going to work out?

Just curious...

 

[cupid_stunt]

You mentioned customs arrangements, not the movement of people. And even with regard to goods moving across the border, you paint a picture that seems pretty rose-tinted given that we've not got sentence one of a customs deal agreed on yet.

There's a 'Common Travel Area' between the RoI & UK, it has existed since the 1920s, allowing free movement & no requirement for passports between the RoI & UK, there was an 'extreme border' between the RoI & NI, but that was for security proposes.

I regularly travelled to & from the RoI in the early 80s without a passport or any checks, as I worked & lived there for some years.

The 'Common Travel Area' is protected, despite whatever the outcome of Brexit is.

The agreement reached in Brussels earlier this month “means the rights of Irish and British citizens under the Common Travel Area (CTA) are protected after the UK leaves the EU”, the foreign office declared.

Irish and British nationals living in each other countries will not be required to apply for settled status to protect their entitlements in Ireland and the UK respectively, while the rights to work, study, access social security and public services will be preserved on a reciprocal basis for Irish and UK nationals.

“There will be also be full protection and maintenance of the current arrangements for journeys between the Ireland and the UK,” it went on.

Irish and UK citizens’ Common Travel Area rights protected

The issue over goods will be resolved, even Barnier has started talking about any checks taking place away from the border at company premises or in the markets, because he wants to "de-dramatise" the border issue.

The need to avoid any hard border is too much of an important issue for it not to happen, if we can send people into space, we can come up with technological solutions to do any checks away from the border, it's hardly rocket science.

 

[cupid_stunt]

It’s extraordinary isn’t it that when both sides agree that there should be no hard border and the solution is apparently completely straightforward, that somehow negotiations seem to be held up for just that reason.

It will run to the 11th hour, as it so often does with EU negotiations.

 

[Winot]

It will run to the 11th hour, as it so often does with EU negotiations.

Business needs certainty now.

 

[Pickman's model]

Thanks i usually am

Like a large majority of remain voters dying. Do tell me more about this silent slaughter

 

[Pickman's model]

It will run to the 11th hour, as it so often does with EU negotiations.

Be done by lunchtime then

 

[RedStag]

So Scotland and NI vote no and you think fuck em cos that's ok co "democracy"?
No that's a very flawed democracy.

it's how the system works across the democratic world - people vote, then the side with the majority wins - so should we just change this so that you can stay in your beloved EU...that's quite funny actually

 

[RedStag]

People in NI fought long and hard to have human rights...let alone equal rights. They don't trust the British judicial system ... for good reasons. They have experienced it's inequality and injustice in the past. Mark my words though...ordinary British people will have their rights interfered with. Working hours...basic wage...they'll be fucked off when things go belly up. And there will be no recourse to the ECHR.

We don't want the ECHR telling us what to do, hence the majority voted Leave - haven't you grasped that.

And by the way, the DUP and pro-British Ulster folk do support Britain, so who the F are you to speak for all of NI

 

[not-bono-ever]

We don't want the ECHR telling us what to do, hence the majority voted Leave - haven't you grasped that.

simplistic derivative shit

 

[RedStag]

is there a possibility that laws coukd be altered and once you've reached the Supreme Court you will encounter blocks to going further? I guess what I'm asking is- who will monitor the UK legal system and ensure it's not altered...bearing in mind that in NI it took a lot for one half of that community to gain equal rights in numbers of areas.

The British voters, that's who.
If they want it changed, then they can do so.

 

[brogdale]

We don't want the ECHR telling us what to do, hence the majority voted Leave - haven't you grasped that.

And by the way, the DUP and pro-British Ulster folk do support Britain, so who the F are you to speak for all of NI

"...support Britain..."

 

[RedStag]

... like a stopped clock....

By the way...what's going to happen with ex pats living in the EU? Seeing as the banks are all sticking to EU regulations about the movement of money from outside the EU?
How are their UK pensions going to work out?

Just curious...

ever heard of ATM machines?

 

[Baronage-Phase]

The British voters, that's who.
If they want it changed, then they can do so.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

ever heard of ATM machines?

 

[Baronage-Phase]

We don't want the ECHR telling us what to do, hence the majority voted Leave - haven't you grasped that.

And by the way, the DUP and pro-British Ulster folk do support Britain, so who the F are you to speak for all of NI

 

[brogdale]

Presuming to speak on behalf of some unspecified volkish "..we.." should, in itself, be grounds for the mods to do the decent thing.

 

[mojo pixy]

Hafta say it's refreshing to hear the old fashioned frothing jingoistic brexit chauvinism again rather than the quite reasonable and well thought through lexit stuff we've mostly had here on U75 the last couple of years. This is the kind of ukip shit that made it all possible, keep it up RedStag