Why can't we just have a 'standard' border in Northern Ireland re: Brexit

[Baronage-Phase]

ever heard of ATM machines?

"Many private pensions are covered under so-called passporting rules for financial companies. Without a deal, insurers and pension providers would be legally barred from sending out payments, leaving policies dormant on their accounts."


Colin Gleeson, Irish Times, August 14th 2018

So without a change in regulations this will be a problem and if the UK ends up with a no deal Brexit this will be an ever bigger problem.

https://www.smpfinancial.com/uk-pen...MI052uhPyF3gIVh7HtCh33ngoIEAAYASAAEgI3vfD_BwE

It isn't as simple as you might think.

 

[lazythursday]

Some ignorance on this thread from both sides of the argument. The ECHR has nothing to do with the EU. It is entirely separate. We we still be members of the Council of Europe and the ECHR after Brexit - alongside other places that aren't in the EU like Russia and Turkey.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Some ignorance on this thread from both sides of the argument. The ECHR has nothing to do with the EU. It is entirely separate. We we still be members of the Council of Europe and the ECHR after Brexit - alongside other places that aren't in the EU like Russia and Turkey.

Ah...my reference was to the European Court of Human Rights.....

 

[alex_]

A large Majority of remain voters have died as well, so pointless point
Complete myth about all the leavers being old and nobody has changed their minds
Look at the footage after Brexit , loads of oldies in London moaning with placards
And please no fake links with so called proof

I realise there is no educating the ignorant but

YouGov | How Britain Voted

People with better education more likely to vote remain

Older people more likely to vote leave.

Alex

 

[lazythursday]

Ah...my reference was to the European Court of Human Rights.....

Yeah and we'll still be part of that. Of course most Brexiteers think we shouldn't be / won't be. Which would be frankly bizarre and embarrassing given even the Russian Federation are signed up to it.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Yeah and we'll still be part of that. Of course most Brexiteers think we shouldn't be / won't be. Which would be frankly bizarre and embarrassing given even the Russian Federation are signed up to it.

Theresa May was rather against the UK maintaining the EConventionHR treaty on leaving the EU up to a few months ago.
Ms May said she believed ECHR membership made it harder to deport terror suspects and criminal...
But she had to bow to the EU ..

Theresa May bows to EU pressure to keep UK in human rights convention after Brexit, enraging Tory right

Who knows what might happen...but One thing is certain.the Tories don't like the treaty.

 

[JuanTwoThree]

European non-members of the Council of Europe and thus the ECHR: Kosovo, Kazakhstan, Belarus and the Vatican City.

Quite aside from the Brexit matter, anybody who wants the UK to leave these two institutions needs to think about stuff like this:

Six things you should know about the ECHR

Does anybody here want UK to leave these bodies?

 

[Saul Goodman]

People with better education more likely to vote remain

I got called a "patronising cunt" for daring to mention that on another thread.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

European non-members of the Council of Europe and thus the ECHR: Kosovo, Kazakhstan, Belarus and the Vatican City.

Quite aside from the Brexit matter, anybody who wants the UK to leave these two institutions needs to think about stuff like this:

Six things you should know about the ECHR

Does anybody here want UK to leave these bodies?

Can't imagine anyone here or with a brain wanting to leave either.

 

[alex_]

I got called a "patronising cunt" for daring to mention that on another thread.

There is still time.

 

[brogdale]

There is still time.

The correlation between EU referendum vote and % of population with degree/equiv level education is accepted as one of the clearest indicators. Nothing patronising (or cuntish) is stating such an objective fact. What takes you into more cuntish territory is when you start referring to better/worse educated or implying that those without a degree were necessarily less able to make an informed choice.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I realise there is no educating the ignorant but

YouGov | How Britain Voted

People with better education more likely to vote remain

Older people more likely to vote leave.

Alex

Those two are not independent variables. The older you are, the smaller the percentage of people your age who went to university. So if, for argument's sake, the causal factor here were solely age, you'd also find a difference in education levels leave/remain.

 

[Cheesepig3]

these are ALREADY EXISTING properties. are you really suggesting people who have properties which straddle the border, where such properties have existed since before the division of ireland, that they will have to change everything to suit your petty purposes?

Wasn't Ireland always divided until it found itself under the British flag?

 

[Cheesepig3]

Those two are not independent variables. The older you are, the smaller the percentage of people your age who went to university. So if, for argument's sake, the causal factor here were solely age, you'd also find a difference in education levels leave/remain.

Are you saying old people voted Brexit, or thick people voted Brexit or old thick people voted Brexit or old people are thick or young Brexit voters are thick or that Brexit voters are thick regardless of age?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Are you saying old people voted Brexit, or thick people voted Brexit or old thick people voted Brexit or old people are thick or young Brexit voters are thick or that Brexit voters are thick regardless of age?

Further research is needed.

Has/Has not been to university is a lousy way of judging 'thick', of course. It is a way of collecting people into groups with certain kinds of jobs more than others, and hence certain kinds of interests more than others.

 

[billbond]

I realise there is no educating the ignorant but

YouGov | How Britain Voted

People with better education more likely to vote remain

Older people more likely to vote leave.

Alex

Winners thou
still hurting

 

[billbond]

Further research is needed.

Has/Has not been to university is a lousy way of judging 'thick', of course. It is a way of collecting people into groups with certain kinds of jobs more than others, and hence certain kinds of interests more than others.

or some might say brainwashed ref uni

 

[xenon]

Won what though?

Winners thou
still hurting

 

[Raheem]

Won what though?

Won at racism, remembering the 60s and having one O-level.

 

[Celyn]

I know all that...but can you not see how this will fuck up NI ?

Maybe it's time for all the UK to vote on whether or not NI should be in the UK. Maybe people in England should vote to allow NI to become an independent country...or at least vote to cut it loose.

...

That post moves rather weirdly from all the UK should vote to "people in England" should vote.
Is there a reason why people in Scotland and Wales are not to be allowed to vote?

 

[Baronage-Phase]

That post moves rather weirdly from all the UK should vote to "people in England" should vote.
Is there a reason why people in Scotland and Wales are not to be allowed to vote?

You're quite right. My brain was obviously on a break when that was posted and Scotland and Wales should have been included.
Apols

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Wasn't Ireland always divided until it found itself under the British flag?

"found itself" ?

 

[maomao]

The Kingdom of Britain actively invaded all of these places.

The Kingdom of (Great) Britain didn't exist until after the Treaty of Union in 1706 when the Scottish king peacefully became king of England as well. So I don't think you can say the 'Kingdom of Britain invaded Scotland'.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

The Kingdom of (Great) Britain didn't exist until after the Treaty of Union in 1706 when the Scottish king peacefully became king of England as well. So I don't think you can say the 'Kingdom of Britain invaded Scotland'.

I edited that post a while ago. I had meant the Kingdom of England......not Britain. I think I need to get some sleep. I'm exhausted

 

[Poi E]

or some might say brainwashed ref uni

True. I saw what happened to people who studied commerce and finance: market zombies one and all with no critical faculties left. Mind you, that was the 1990s when lots of otherwise sane people used to rabbit on about the "invisible hand" of the market!

 

[krtek a houby]

Wasn't Ireland always divided until it found itself under the British flag?

Those who like to maintain the union and/or retcon history would say so. I admit that I swallowed that version of events for a while, when I believed that an independent NI/6 counties might be the only answer. This was long before Brexit and it was rightly pointed out to me, that to support such a state would be to support the legitimacy of partition.

It's true that Ireland had many warring kings/clans and chieftains in the 5 (or more) provinces over the centuries. But there's many a genesis of a country (Italy, Germany etc) that had various kingdoms, fifedoms, states, republics that shared common peoples and cultures.

 

[Pickman's model]

Winners thou
still hurting

Still waiting on you to tell us more about the great majority of remain voters dying

 

[alex_]

Still waiting on you to tell us more about the great majority of remain voters dying

I think this is one of those alternative fact arguments.

Alex

 

[xarmian]

There's a 'Common Travel Area' between the RoI & UK, it has existed since the 1920s, allowing free movement & no requirement for passports between the RoI & UK, there was an 'extreme border' between the RoI & NI, but that was for security proposes.

I regularly travelled to & from the RoI in the early 80s without a passport or any checks, as I worked & lived there for some years.

The 'Common Travel Area' is protected, despite whatever the outcome of Brexit is.


Irish and UK citizens’ Common Travel Area rights protected

The issue over goods will be resolved, even Barnier has started talking about any checks taking place away from the border at company premises or in the markets, because he wants to "de-dramatise" the border issue.

The need to avoid any hard border is too much of an important issue for it not to happen, if we can send people into space, we can come up with technological solutions to do any checks away from the border, it's hardly rocket science.

Tech makes the border easier to navigate but it doesn't make it open. Trusted trader schemes and pre-filed paperwork minimise physical checks but smugglers don't join trusted trader schemes. The extra costs put SMEs at a disadvantage compared to large corporates. They can keep the border minimal but they can't leave it open.

A border in the Irish Sea would be much easier to manage because it's just a few ports and airports and most checks can be done in transit or as part of routine disembarkation. But the DUP won't allow it and EU doesn't understand them any better than the government does. There's no chance of reaching a compromise now if there ever was.

 

[philosophical]

Tech makes the border easier to navigate but it doesn't make it open. Trusted trader schemes and pre-filed paperwork minimise physical checks but smugglers don't join trusted trader schemes. The extra costs put SMEs at a disadvantage compared to large corporates. They can keep the border minimal but they can't leave it open.

A border in the Irish Sea would be much easier to manage because it's just a few ports and airports and most checks can be done in transit or as part of routine disembarkation. But the DUP won't allow it and EU doesn't understand them any better than the government does.

There's no chance of reaching a compromise now if there ever was.

Whatever new system anyone thinks they can dream up would still need formal checks and infrastructure to detect transgressions and deal with them.
At present any such system that may exist seems to be acceptable to most people, but a new system introduced in the future would have a huge amount of implications, some of them pretty unsavoury.