Why can't we just have a 'standard' border in Northern Ireland re: Brexit

[cupid_stunt]

Didn't realise Theresa May had a login here.

I seem to have spooked Frank with some logic, that he can't cope with.

 

[danny la rouge]

I can understand why many people in NI are concerned, just as I can understand why many non-UK EU citizens currently living and working in the UK are concerned, but those concerns can't be used to declare Brexit impossible or illegitimate.

And as far as that article goes, we're not leaving the Council of Europe or the ECHR, we're leaving the EU, so many of the specific concerns about rights mentioned there don't seem to me to hold up.

This comes down again to people conflating polity, institution, identity, geography and all those things.

“We’re leaving Europe”. - No, we’re leaving the EU. This is about an institution, not tectonic plates.

“We won’t be European any more”. - We will. We won’t be in the EU any more though.

“We won’t be able to listen to the soft rock band, Europe, any more”. - I think that comes under human rights, so that’s probably correct. I hope.

 

[andysays]

I don't think I ever said it was illegitimate. Or impossible
It is happening so it is possible and it has legitimacy because it was voted on and the miniscule majority won.

But .. just because there was a tiny majority doesn't mean it's necessarily something that's going to benefit the UK long-term..

But who am I to comment.

Whether or not it will benefit 'the UK' depends on how you view the interests of the UK and whose interests are paramount in that.

But your arguments on this thread and the main Brexit thread seem to be mostly about the interests of people who are either not in the UK at all or make up a small fraction of the total UK population, and while I agree that those people have concerns and that their interests may be adversely affected by Brexit, their concerns and interests shouldn't be the main focus of attention

 

[andysays]

This comes down again to people conflating polity, institution, identity, geography and all those things.

“We’re leaving Europe”. - No, we’re leaving the EU. This is about an institution, not tectonic plates.

“We won’t be European any more”. - We will. We won’t be in the EU any more though.

“We won’t be able to listen to the soft rock band, Europe, any more”. - I think that comes under human rights, so that’s probably correct. I hope.

Does that mean we won't be able to listen to The Clash anymore either?

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Whether or not it will benefit 'the UK' depends on how you view the interests of the UK and whose interests are paramount in that.

But your arguments on this thread and the main Brexit thread seem to be mostly about the interests of people who are either not in the UK at all or make up a small fraction of the total UK population, and while I agree that those people have concerns and that their interests may be adversely affected by Brexit, their concerns and interests shouldn't be the main focus of attention

Oh...

sorry but you seem to be disregarding half the UK?

Or are you saying that because I am Irish I should not comment?

 

[danny la rouge]

Does that mean we won't be able to listen to The Clash anymore either?

I can announce the outcome of that now. *fumbles with envelope*

* clears throat*

The Clash are permitted.

 

[andysays]

Oh...

sorry but you seem to be disregarding half the UK?

Or are you saying that because I am Irish I should not comment?

How I am I disregarding half the UK? A majority of people who voted in the referendum voted for the UK to leave the EU.

And I'm not saying that you shouldn't comment, but you shouldn't confuse your right to comment with thinking that we, the voters of the UK, have to take your interests into account when deciding what to do, anymore than the voters of Eire are obliged take our interests into account.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

How I am I disregarding half the UK? A majority of people who voted in the referendum voted for the UK to leave the EU.

And I'm not saying that you shouldn't comment, but you shouldn't confuse your right to comment with thinking that we, the voters of the UK, have to take your interests into account when deciding what to do, anymore than the voters of Eire are obliged take our interests into account.

Thing is.... Eire has bent over backwards to get a peace deal that includes the British government and people. I was one of the 94% of people in Eire who voted for the GFA.

Brexit is going to change our lives here. And it won't be for the better.

That's my view.
I am very aware that my opinion doesn't have any value or influence. The UK has made their own bed to lay in. But they are pretending to be oblivious to the damage they are doing to their nearest neighbours and are just ploughing on regardless.

That's really all I am going to say on it.
Depressing.... the whole thing. And there is a complete failure to understand the ripples of Brexit.

 

[2hats]

You both realise that the vast majority of goods coming into both the UK & EU from outside are not checked at the borders?

6/10 for trying to sidestep the point.

 

[andysays]

Thing is.... Eire has bent over backwards to get a peace deal that includes the British government and people. I was one of the 94% of people in Eire who voted for the GFA.

Brexit is going to change our lives here. And it won't be for the better.

That's my view.
I am very aware that my opinion doesn't have any value or influence. The UK has made their own bed to lay in. But they are pretending to be oblivious to the damage they are doing to their nearest neighbours and are just ploughing on regardless.

That's really all I am going to say on it.
Depressing.... the whole thing. And there is a complete failure to understand the ripples of Brexit.

The people of Britain weren't given the opportunity to vote for or against the GFA.

You seem at times to be conflating the UK state with the people of the UK, as if every member of the latter is somehow responsible for all the actions of the former.

If the GFA falls apart, it won't be the fault or the responsibility of those of us who voted for Brexit.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I seem to have spooked Frank with some logic, that he can't cope with.

You mentioned customs arrangements, not the movement of people. And even with regard to goods moving across the border, you paint a picture that seems pretty rose-tinted given that we've not got sentence one of a customs deal agreed on yet.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

I had a long post ready to respond to you andysays but I just think it's pointless.

I guess the Bexiteers think it will all be cushty. Sure what can possibly go wrong?

.....

 

[Winot]

It’s extraordinary isn’t it that when both sides agree that there should be no hard border and the solution is apparently completely straightforward, that somehow negotiations seem to be held up for just that reason.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Whether or not it will benefit 'the UK' depends on how you view the interests of the UK and whose interests are paramount in that.

But your arguments on this thread and the main Brexit thread seem to be mostly about the interests of people who are either not in the UK at all or make up a small fraction of the total UK population, and while I agree that those people have concerns and that their interests may be adversely affected by Brexit, their concerns and interests shouldn't be the main focus of attention

Why not? Given that most people in the UK have very little directly at stake personally wrt brexit, surely those who do have something directly at stake should very much be the main focus of attention.

 

[andysays]

Why not? Given that most people in the UK have very little directly at stake personally wrt brexit, surely those who do have something directly at stake should very much be the main focus of attention.

What a bizarre comment.

People outside Britain have more at stake from Brexit than those of us actually living here. How on earth do you reach that conclusion?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What a bizarre comment.

People outside Britain have more at stake from Brexit than those of us actually living here. How on earth do you reach that conclusion?

I found your comment bizarre, tbh. The idea that the concerns of those adversely affected by brexit, whether in the UK or outside it (who cares where they are?) shouldn't be the main focus of attention is very bizarre indeed.

 

[likesfish]

17 million out of 65 million voted for Brexit and there's a strong possibility that the majority has disappeared due to old people dying and people changing their minds because it's turning out to be a really really stupid idea and utter fuckwits are negotiating for us so even if its a Brilliant idea they will fuck it up.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

This comes down again to people conflating polity, institution, identity, geography and all those things.

“We’re leaving Europe”. - No, we’re leaving the EU. This is about an institution, not tectonic plates.

“We won’t be European any more”. - We will. We won’t be in the EU any more though.

“We won’t be able to listen to the soft rock band, Europe, any more”. - I think that comes under human rights, so that’s probably correct. I hope.

I wish I’d been quite as eloquent last time I was in the pub slurring something along the same lines, I didn’t bring up tectonic plates though, nice!

 

[Supine]

Why not? Given that most people in the UK have very little directly at stake personally wrt brexit, surely those who do have something directly at stake should very much be the main focus of attention.

You think most people have little at stake?

People are starting to lose jobs already, and it hasn't even happened yet

 

[Baronage-Phase]

You think most people have little at stake?

People are starting to lose jobs already, and it hasn't even happened yet

Are there people in the UK prepared to protest against Brexit even now?

 

[billbond]

And so half of that nation is ignored???

17 million out of 65 million voted for Brexit and there's a strong possibility that the majority has disappeared due to old people dying and people changing their minds because it's turning out to be a really really stupid idea and utter fuckwits are negotiating for us so even if its a Brilliant idea they will fuck it up.

A large Majority of remain voters have died as well, so pointless point
Complete myth about all the leavers being old and nobody has changed their minds
Look at the footage after Brexit , loads of oldies in London moaning with placards
And please no fake links with so called proof

 

[billbond]

You think most people have little at stake?

People are starting to lose jobs already, and it hasn't even happened yet

People are ALWAYS losing their jobs, its part of life im afraid
They will have to try to get new ones like many others have to.

 

[Pickman's model]

People are ALWAYS losing their jobs, its part of life im afraid
They will have to try to get new ones like many others have to.

Do let us know when you lose yours

 

[Pickman's model]

A large Majority of remain voters have died as well

have they? 10 million remain voters or more have died? in less than 3 years?

 

[Pickman's model]

Are there people in the UK prepared to protest against Brexit even now?

Yeh it's a foul term, can we choose a less ugly word pls?

 

[Pickman's model]

I wish I’d been quite as eloquent last time I was in the pub slurring something along the same lines, I didn’t bring up tectonic plates though, nice!

Yeh diced carrot more common

 

[billbond]

Do let us know when you lose yours

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Yeh diced carrot more common

BOOM

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Yeh diced carrot more common

I was trying to find a video about carrots in spew, it’s an Irish song. It doesn’t appear to belong to the Saw Doctors. Looks like I’m losing neurons!

 

[RedStag]

Your OP has already proven that you're either willfully ignorant of the facts or just being a disingenuous bore on purpose. Whichever is the case, I'm out.

Another dodge noted - typical leftie 'debating' style , and you wonder why your ilk is being hammered by the Right all across Europe and the US