Which way would you vote in an EU referendum?

[Riklet]

put undecided, cos i'm unsure that britain leaving the eu would necessarily weaken or damage capital to the extent we might hope. the uncertainty of this being an effective attack upon capital is what makes me not sure, as this surely has to come with a strong movement from within our countries which is international and critical of the EU in a certain way.

as it stands, voting to leave cos the "spanish/greeks are all lazy" and the euro "doesn't work" is hardly setting britain up for anything other than possible greater power and influence for the right and for their finacial backers. i'm not worried about not being able to live in other european countries, i'm worried that britain would move in an even more reactionary direction, even if this was a "blow" to the capitalist class. do we have the strength to challenge that, and to shape that direction in a progressive way? at the moment it seems unlikely.

 

[butchersapron]

They shouted boycott us!! Hurt us!! But still they put their interests first

The UK leaving the EU is the end of of it. This in itself is not going to hurt capital - it will cause capital trouble. Won't it? The death of the euro?

 

[laptop]

it will cause capital trouble. Won't it? The death of the euro?

Too much hope pinned on that. Profits to be made for some, costs in moving car plants from Sunderland to the Ukraine or somewhere until wages fall enough in the UK to bring them back...

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Not all about you mate.

Oh, thanks for that. I had forgotted that I shared the island with several 10s of millions of others, so I appreciate the reminder.

But the OP question does happen to read:

Which way would you vote in an EU referendum?
So, opinions sought - opinion given - Butchers clasps at straws to slag off person who gave opinion as asked. Where have we seen this before? All around these forums for several years.

Have a nice week Butch

 

[butchersapron]

Still not all about you.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

More about you having a go at others perhaps. Plus ca change innit.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Gonna leave this one or 2 other places.

Farage gets the "Hitler/Downfall" meme treatment from the wonderful people at Still Laughing At UKIP on Facebook

 

[butchersapron]

Oh god. So Still Laughing At UKIP is just Still Laughing At EDL. And that was good. Makes a change to not effect something real though.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Oh god. So Still Laughing At UKIP is just Still Laughing At EDL. And that was good. Makes a change to not effect something real though.

Story of your life, eh? And stayed up till 4am in the process. Good lad.

 

[danny la rouge]

Forget the ultra-left nonsense that we don't take part in bosses battles -

That is kind of my natural inclination when it comes to campaigning on the issue; I won't be campaigning for withdrawal. But I'd vote for it.

 

[coley]

Seeing the last 600 decent jobs around here disappear as a result of an EU edict was the final straw, out, out ,out.

 

[gentlegreen]

The EU costs me about £2 a week I believe,
Seems a reasonable punt for something that will probably get its act together eventually.

The UK leaving might well cause me some grief as I'm hoping to end my days living in the country next door.

 

[butchersapron]

Story of your life, eh? And stayed up till 4am in the process. Good lad.

That's a fucking stormer of a post. Congrats. And allied to the one where you almost said something about what you thought about a thread means that you're on some kind of mad roll. This shit is what its all about.

 

[butchersapron]

The EU costs me about £2 a week I believe,
Seems a reasonable punt for something that will probably get its act together eventually.

The UK leaving might well cause me some grief as I'm hoping to end my days living in the country next door.

What does "probably get its act together eventually." mean? Do you mean follow through on it's political and economic plans? If so, et voila. If something else, what, and why and how will it get its act together?

 

[SpineyNorman]

The EU costs me about £2 a week I believe,
Seems a reasonable punt for something that will probably get its act together eventually.

The UK leaving might well cause me some grief as I'm hoping to end my days living in the country next door.

At least someone is focusing on the issues that really matter in all of this.

 

[Gmart]

What does "probably get its act together eventually." mean? Do you mean follow through on it's political and economic plans? If so, et voila. If something else, what, and why and how will it get its act together?

Whatever way it goes, the idea of isolationism is going to just offer the country and its workers up on the alter of world corporations, ushered in by the old elites who are always happy to sell the rights of workers at a cost. Any resistance against corporate control would be better effected from a position of strength, rather than a position of weakness and that means cooperation.

 

[Meltingpot]

That's a fucking stormer of a post. Congrats. And allied to the one where you almost said something about what you thought about a thread means that you're on some kind of mad roll. This shit is what its all about.

Butch, your post count is a palindrome

 

[butchersapron]

Whatever way it goes, the idea of isolationism is going to just offer the country and its workers up on the alter of world corporations, ushered in by the old elites who are always happy to sell the rights of workers at a cost. Any resistance against corporate control would be better effected from a position of strength, rather than a position of weakness and that means cooperation.

The EU is world corporations, it is capital, it is the political face of capital. It is not resistance to corporate control. I would like to know what made you think that it is. I'd also like to know why co-operation (you don't say between who btw) can only come about within the EU. I'm sure there used to be co-operation before ad outside the EU - didn't there? You insult me by even mentioning isolationism.

 

[redsquirrel]

I'd vote for leaving if possible, not only do you get to vote against an institution who's very purpose is that attack workers but you can also annoy the liberal idiots who defend the EU.

 

[butchersapron]

Butch, your post count is a palindrome

Not any more.

 

[Meltingpot]

I don't want to speak for butchers, but I'm guessing he means that corporations are getting record profits and are sitting on piles of cash, while having an army of unemployed people to pick their labour from, while driving down wages for those actually in employment.

In that sense, austerity is working.

I agree the EU has its faults but I still think things would be worse without the EU - all the high profile people who want to take us out at the moment (John Redwood et al) are the same ones who want to weaken even the already existing workers' rights, environmental protection, health and safety legislation etc. The Greens are right - stay in and work to change it from within.

 

[butchersapron]

Stay in the IMF, work to change it from within. Join the tory/labour party - work to change it from within., become an arsehole boss in some massive company and work to change it from within.

All these positive stuff that come from working within, things to change them, can we have a shirt list of the victories please - the parties won, the unions won, the institutions won, the bodies won. That would be a good start off way to back up the idea that it's possible to stay in the eu and change it.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I agree the EU has its faults but I still think things would be worse without the EU - all the high profile people who want to take us out at the moment (John Redwood et al) are the same ones who want to weaken even the already existing workers' rights, environmental protection, health and safety legislation etc. The Greens are right - stay in and work to change it from within.

Why are you bothered about what 'the high profile people' want? Is that really the way to make a judgement? And which 'high profile people' have our best interests at heart?

 

[butchersapron]

Hard headed green party policy (this is part of their join the council and change it from within by cuting wages approach):

EU121 Our aims for the European level are to:
a)safeguard basic human, social and political rights;
b)bring peace and security to Europe, by promoting greater understanding and friendship between its peoples;
c)solve and prevent environmental problems, such as air pollution, which can best be resolved at the European level and work together to combat climate change and other international environmental problems;
d)promote sustainable, non exploitative, self reliant local and regional economies;
e)reduce inequalities of wealth and disparities in quality of life between the regions of Europe, and between Europe and the rest of the world;
f)support a rich diversity of cultures;
g)facilitate the exchange of ideas, technology and sustainable practices;
h)promote global co-operation.

They forgot
i) be nice
j) wear red trews.

 

[gentlegreen]

What does "probably get its act together eventually." mean? Do you mean follow through on it's political and economic plans? If so, et voila. If something else, what, and why and how will it get its act together?

The tendency to go to war is maybe no longer a justification - though the Balkans are still a bit iffy ...
Supra-national environmental, health and safety and human rights legislation has to be a good thing.
Food and fuel supplies are somewhat bigger than any one nation.
Like most of the electorate I am rarely qualified to vote on stuff like this, but will be going with my gut feeling - since I know nothing about the ongoing revolution.

 

[redsquirrel]

How many of you were pro-AV?

• stavros
• CyberRose
• free spirit
• Roadkill
• geminisnake
• marty21
• red rose
• gentlegreen
• sleaterkinney
• goldenecitrone
• Gerry1time
• stuff_it
• Greebo
• Pickman's model
• renegadechicken
• PursuedByBears
• Mungy
• harpo
• Vintage Paw
• shagnasty
• Frankie Jack
• dessiato
• Gmart
• Reno
• B0B2oo9
• TheHoodedClaw
• Jon-of-arc
• Tankus
• co-op
• toblerone3
• Nylock
• grit
• Kippa
• A380
• ayatollah
• tbtommyb
• UrbaneFox
• Favelado
• Silas Loom

 

[gentlegreen]

I was up for giving it a punt.

Doubtless I'm a closet Tory and a traitor to whatever class I'm a member of.

 

[tony.c]

How many of you where pro-AV?

You keep lists?

 

[redsquirrel]

If I kept a list I wouldn't need to ask the question would I.

 

[inferno]

When we voted in 1975 referendum it was to enter the "common market" which meant we would have a bigger market place in which we could sell our manufactured goods.

Nothing was said about handing over complete control of the country to Brussels.

What we need, I think anyway, is a renegotiation of the terms, rather than withdrawal but if the terms HAVE to stay the same then I would vote for OUT.