Were Led Zeppelin actually influential? Heavy blues rock with a sideline in folk. That's very of its time. Page and Bonham were influential as individual musicians but that doesn't mean the sound they developed as a band led anywhere. Probably important for the sound that Deep Purple and, well, Black Sabbath developed but not much else. I don't hear them in later metal bands except wrt to the drums. Who does heavy Howlin Wolf covers these days? Or even in the late 70's?
Which had more influence, Sabbath or Led Zep?
- Thread starter danny la rouge
- Start date
petee
no gods, no malarkey
i see the issue.
Les Zeppelin clearly established the stansars.
mx wcfc
Well-Known Member
I saw both Sabbath and Zep live, despite being essentially a punk fan.
A few years ago, I was in a busy train home, and there were teenagers talking about music
Just as the train pulled into my station, one of them said “Paul saw Sabbath last year”. I just said, as I passed them getting off , “I saw Sabbath in 1978”.
A few years ago, I was in a busy train home, and there were teenagers talking about music
Just as the train pulled into my station, one of them said “Paul saw Sabbath last year”. I just said, as I passed them getting off , “I saw Sabbath in 1978”.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Heavy/hard rock takes on blues riffs was already a thing when led zep started up - including afore mentioned blus cheer plus cream, hendrix and the Who (althought they didnt record their take on it until 1970 with Live at Leeds - but Young Mans Blues is more led zep than anything the actual led zep ever did - Townshend has been whinging ever since that Led zep ripped him off). Led Zep didnt originate that sound - but zeroed in on it and made it their own.
Sabbath (and deep purple and the other first wave of metal bands) were influenced by the same early-hard rock and heavy blues that zep were - but sabbath added the darkness and horror themes that came to define metal - and also argualbly inspired the rockier end of goth. Sabbath had greater vision, more charismatic, better songs - but also sounded like they meant it in a way that led zep never did.
Sabbath (and deep purple and the other first wave of metal bands) were influenced by the same early-hard rock and heavy blues that zep were - but sabbath added the darkness and horror themes that came to define metal - and also argualbly inspired the rockier end of goth. Sabbath had greater vision, more charismatic, better songs - but also sounded like they meant it in a way that led zep never did.
mx wcfc
Well-Known Member
Yeah, me too.
I was 16. It was a sort of post O levels rite of passage with a bunch of school mates, that I went to even though half of us were punk by then.
I think my over riding memory (apart from the gig) was us finding an unattended tent with an "NF" flag on it.
My mate had a dump, but I could only manage a piss.
Great days.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Black Sabbath was far more influential, in my view, possibly because they were more working-class than Led Zepplin. Therefore, their success was seen as both more inspirational and more attainable as role models. As I remember students we knew liked Led Zepplin as they were 'musicians' and normal people liked Black sabbath as they were more 'like us'.
However, Led Zepplin did inspire one of the greatest bands ever to come out of America, who are now the subject of a film
However, Led Zepplin did inspire one of the greatest bands ever to come out of America, who are now the subject of a film
My first Sabbath album was "Heaven and Hell". The amazing sound, Martin Birch production, Dio's vocals and the iconic cover.
Loved it back then, love it still.
Loved it back then, love it still.
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seeformiles
Lost in the wood
Have loved them both since I was about 10 years old and both have an impeccable run of LPs up to the late 70s. I can’t choose between them as they’re both just as pioneering and influential on music that has followed and they occupy different but no less important spaces in my musical world. First Sabbath LP I had was “Vol 4” and first Zep was “LZ 3” - could still happily listen to them back to back on a loop as those LPs cover a hell of a lot of varied musical territory between them. Asking me to choose one is like favouring one child over another.
hash tag
Books, not bombs
Third who saw Zep at Knebworth ( amongst other places ).
If we need to bring this debate down to the finer points; the two bands were both loud rock bands but were quite different.
Sabbath were more basic and raw whereas Zeppelin were much more heavily produced. I imagine Sabbath knocked a track together
in a day or two whereas Zeppelin could have taken weeks.
I saw both bands numerous times along with the likes of The Who, Purple, Quo Etc. and enjoyed them all. That is what they are for to be
enjoyed. Was one better than the other or did this or did that; who cares.
If we need to bring this debate down to the finer points; the two bands were both loud rock bands but were quite different.
Sabbath were more basic and raw whereas Zeppelin were much more heavily produced. I imagine Sabbath knocked a track together
in a day or two whereas Zeppelin could have taken weeks.
I saw both bands numerous times along with the likes of The Who, Purple, Quo Etc. and enjoyed them all. That is what they are for to be
enjoyed. Was one better than the other or did this or did that; who cares.
hitmouse
entreprenulsoip critical thinking
The late-period (or maybe middle-period now, depending how we're measuring) Ministry album Houses of the Mole is apparently a Zeppelin reference:
As Ministry album titles that are puns on 70s rock albums go, it's no Dark Side of the Spoon, but also perhaps it would be a good thing if Al Jourgensen was slightly less obsessed with making puns on 70s rock titles in general.
maomao
普費斯
In the same vein The Butthole Surfers' Hairway to Steven is clearly a Zep reference.
maomao
普費斯
Yes, the Buttholes and Ministry only nicked album titles off Led Zep, they both nicked riffs off Sabbath.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Jourgensen’s 1000 Homo DJs project’s main single was a cover of a Black Sabbath track Supernaut. Ripped off Sabbath artwork too.
hitmouse
entreprenulsoip critical thinking
And there was that time the Sun tried to call Richard Burgon a nazi for playing with a band who had an album cover that was ripped off/playing with a Black Sabbath album cover:
www.theguardian.com
Has there ever been a libel case, let alone a 21st century one, where a Led Zeppelin album cover was the crucial piece of evidence?
Labour MP Richard Burgon wins 'Nazi' libel case against Sun
£30,000 damages for claim that a band he performed with ‘delighted’ in Nazi imagery
Has there ever been a libel case, let alone a 21st century one, where a Led Zeppelin album cover was the crucial piece of evidence?
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
I can’t think of any band that owes its sound to Led Zep. But if you want to hear Sabbath riffs galore, check out the genres of doom metal, stoner metal, sludge metal, and so on. Countless bands doing the de-tuned sludgy riffage straight out of the Sabbath playbook.
hash tag
Books, not bombs
Oh danny la rouge you should try getting out more. Also it's all very subjective. I can hear Zep influence in Metallica, Slayer, Megadeath, Avenged Sevenfold, Muse, Accept et al. But I could also argue that I can hear Sabbath in bits of their work.
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
I wouldn’t dream of listening to Metallica, Slayer, Muse or Michael Bublé.
TBF it is on the Nativity in Black tribute compilation.
hash tag
Books, not bombs
Now I am confused.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
These lads went on to be quite a big deal. Helping clear away the endless swathes of post-Sabbath hair metal dogshit.
And this heavily Zeppelin-influenced lot were arguably the British equivalent; showing everyone that rock music didn't actually need to be as dull as a cold tea enema and bootstrapping the next decade of British guitar music in the process:
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
“Now”.
I can hear a touch of Zeppelin in Nirvana and a touch more of Sabbath in them I think Cobain described Nirvana as The Beatles + Black Sabbath. An oversimplification of course but an odd mention for team Zeppelin.
Had no idea that the Stone Roses sited Led Zeppelin as in influence. That's a real surprise. All the Led Zeppelin fans I knew at the time hated them.
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danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
In my opinion, Master of Reality is their best album. But I’m glad you’re enjoying your foray!
One area that probably won't get mention is just how complex LZ were rhythmically and how seminal they were for prog metal and maybe even math rock.
Rush were basically Led Zeppelin + Yes. And love them or hate them but Rush begat the entire prog metal sub-genre, (along with Dream Theater.)
In my mind this is the main still existing trace of Led Zeppelin in contemporary music.
Otherwise they're really the tail end of 60's British blues rock.
Rush were basically Led Zeppelin + Yes. And love them or hate them but Rush begat the entire prog metal sub-genre, (along with Dream Theater.)
In my mind this is the main still existing trace of Led Zeppelin in contemporary music.
Otherwise they're really the tail end of 60's British blues rock.
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
It’s their more proggy stuff I like the least, tbh. Really the second CD of Mothership is where I lose interest.
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