TruXta
tired
Maybe because you don't actually seem to have any political ideas apart from it's all shit and going down the drain?
Where now for the anti-cuts movement?
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Maybe because you don't actually seem to have any political ideas apart from it's all shit and going down the drain?
Being able to spot a moron doesn't necessarily make you clever.
I do try to briefly explain why I think it's all going down the drain though. These are in themselves political ideas. In contrast, my detractors offer nothing but empty sloganeering and 'it'll all be all right on the night.'
Sigh. I don't Stretters, I really don't, but if it makes you happy I'll say I do.
Now is that better?
TruXta
tired
Okay, let me rephrase to say that while you do have a political analysis of why things are shit and getting shitter, I can't see (but am happy to be corrected) that you have offered any thoughts on how to remedy that situation. If you don't think it can be remedied, fair fucks to you, but that hardly warrants you going around calling people who do have ideals, optimism and drive morons.
How clear do I need to make it that I find it difficult to believe it can be remedied? Sometimes you're at the mercy of historical forces you can't control. This looks like it could be one of those periods, looking long-term maybe the final one in terms of human history. I don't, however, as I keep having to repeat, advocate that people should do nothing. Nobody so far has been able to come up with a single quote where I do so. And yet that's what I'm perpetually accused of by people who think what I'm saying is irrelevent but seem a bit anguished by it anayway. (Apparently, constantly arguing these points with about eight people on here puts the entire aanti-cuts movement in jeopardy
You might have noticed by now that I don't usually start insulting anybody befoe they have a go at me. And what does it matter anyway?
TruXta
tired
Oh you've made it abundantly clear. You've also made it clear that you're an utter fatalist -
That last underlined bit... really? Is that really what you believe? Mass consumerist capitalism is the only thing that stops people from turning on each other... been a while since you read anything but modern history I take it, or even some classical anthropology. Or even just, ya know, talked to people.
You don't have to go all classical anthropology on me sunshine, or at least not until you've started shaving. I've never read any classical anthropology and can't see my way to doing so, but unlike some on here, I don't have the need to pretend I'm a great intellect. And I guarantee you that I talk to more people most days than you do. I do believe that mass consumerism was key to stabilising societies that had just spent a big slice of the century indulging in mass slaughter. I may be wrong, but it's only an opinion; I'm sorry if it upsets you in some way. Mass consumerism will probably not last out the natural lifespan of those under thirty anyway, so the idea will soon be put to the test.
As I also keep having to repeat, I'm not a fatalist. Recognising that things happen that nobody can control doesn't make you a fatalist. On the smaller scale it might be possible to achieve things when the wider picture is out of control.
TruXta
tired
Do fuck off with your prolier-than-thou grandstanding. And I'm probably older than you anyway, you've got that mid-20s ennui, woe be me/us attitude.
Despite your protestations you are exactly a fatalist. You believe, without a shred of evidence, that there are "forces" (what forces? gravity? electrostatic repulsion?) we can't control. Dude. We are those forces. Without people there are no social or historical forces, just chemistry and physics. It follows, trivially, that we can change whatever set-up exists, whether by talk or by coercion.
I haven't said anything remotely woe-is-me, you idiot pseudo-intellectual. If you are older than me, that's a pretty frightening thought.
I didn't say just 'forces'. I said historical forces. Do you really not undertand this well-used term?
There is, however, no 'we'. There isn't even any 'we' on Urban 75.
TruXta
tired
Historical forces you say, as if it actually means anything. Be specific. "We" as in humanity, you dolt.
Humanity is not a 'we.'
The series of events that led up to, say, the Second World War was what you could call an historical force, for instance. There was nothing individuals, or collections of individuals, could do about it. They were simply swept along. Similarly, there's not a thing we can do as individuals or groups about the causes of global warming or natural resource depletion, as we or our children will find out. In actual fact, there's nothing those who are ostensibly in control across the world can do about them either. Even they are not a 'we.'
audiotech
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True, but it doesn't make you look that bright, especially when the terms "idiot", "moron" and "stupid", interspersed with profanities are, as demonstrated on this thread at least, used against a fair few posters who happened to challenge your doom-laden prognosis.
The thing is I can't actually remember the last time anyone challenged LLETSA's analysis with a counter analysis rather than ad hominems. Not saying it's not happened but I don't recall it.
audiotech
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There was a 'Red Berlin' before there was a majority of Germans marching in Brown Shirts, so there were individuals and a collection of individuals doing something about it. Chomsky argues that the problem then was that 'radical imaginations fell short'. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you appear not to have any imagination?
audiotech
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That's fair enough, but ad hominems back?
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
tbh, my experience is that the man-not-ball stuff starts with LLETSA, and others (including myself) have responded in kind. That may be just down to his manner, but it's unreasonable to expect the other cheek to be turned.
I actually agree with a lot of LLETSA's analysis of the massive, hellish problems that we collectively face, just not with the assertion that there's no real point trying to do anything about it. And given that that boils down ultimately to whether one takes a fundamentally optimistic/positive view of human beings or a fundamnetally negative/pessimistic one, there's not a lot of room for discourse there.
He doesn't say that though, just that he doesn't have the answers and we don't have convincing ones either.
love detective
there's no love too small
yeah same here - the issue always gets moved/deflected on to his personal attributes - which, from my viewpoint, tends to look pathetic as fuck
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
yep. he's one of the posters i have time for tbh
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
He seems to me to be a deal more miserablist/fatalist than that, but I may have misread him, I grant you
Then again, his internet persona seems to me to be so unpleasant, that's quite an easy trap to fall into.
Don't get me wrong, he is sometimes winding people up deliberately, but it doesn't detract from his overall points (whether I agree with him or not, and I don't always).
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
fair enough
Yes, but as I'm getting a little tired of pointing out, usually after the insults start flying the opposite way. I can't help it; it's the way I was brought up.
Ah well, if you want to call me a fatalist, I'll have to accept the label, I suppose. It doesn't make me one though.
And where did I say the historical forces I speak of were 'ahuman' (is that the same as inhuman?)
Jesus fucking Christ, you'd try the patience of saints, some of you. For the nth time, where have I said there's no point in trying to do anything?
Streathamite and certain others are great at tut-tutting and finger wagging at me for not putting forward 'solutions', but funnily enough they never even get as far as explaining why they think I'm wrong politically, let alone put across 'solutions' of their own.
I think I preferred you before you had time on your hands and the opportunity to read Chomsky and Slavo whatever-he's-called. What you seem to have done is swap some SWP-tinged platitudes for a set of others from some cleverer people.
audiotech
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Growing up in a working class background, my parents always told me not to swear and I avoided doing so, or I knew I would get a slap around the head, or worse if I did, but there you go.
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