Alec Baldwin 'heartbroken' over fatal film set shooting
Director of photography Halyna Hutchins was killed by a prop gun fired by the actor in New Mexico.
www.bbc.com
When life imitates art!
- Thread starter Dandred
- Start date
Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
I'm having trouble understanding why anyone on a film set would point a gun at anyone other than the person who is supposed to have a gun pointed at them when rehearsing or filming a specific scene.
www.latimes.com
'Rust' crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting
At least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to production managers about gun safety on the set.
www.latimes.com
Reno
The In Kraut
I would imagine that Baldwin was supposed to shoot in the direction the camera, there are plenty of shots like it in films. There has been a lot of blaming of Alec Baldwin online but unsafe working conditions and replacing the crew with non-union members just hours before, is probably what's to blame. He was told just before that the gun is safe.I'm having trouble understanding why anyone on a film set would point a gun at anyone other than the person who is supposed to have a gun pointed at them when rehearsing or filming a specific scene.
'Rust' crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting
At least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to production managers about gun safety on the set.
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Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
Thank you - that makes sense. It was described in the article (the lining up of the shot), but not in a way that made me picture it being towards the camera.
On rereading the article, it sounds like pulling the trigger was an accident, given that the crew is supposed to retreat before the actual filming. And that that accident wouldn't have had fatal consequences if the working conditions and safety procedures weren't heavily compromised.
Reno
The In Kraut
It's a mystery to me as well why real guns still get used on sets, especially after Brandon Lee got fatally shot on The Crow. Unsafe and poor working conditions are nothing new, especially with lower budgeted films. There was a harrowing case where a camera assistant got killed in a train accident. The circumstances sound very similar to this.
A Train, a Narrow Trestle and 60 Seconds to Escape: How ‘Midnight Rider’ Victim Sarah Jones Lost Her Life
The parents of the young camera assistant killed in the train accident on the Georgia set of "Midnight Rider," as well as an injured hairstylist who survived it, reveal harrowing and graphic new details. "I saw my life, my kids, my family, all of it before me," says the hairstylist. "I was sure...
www.hollywoodreporter.com
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
It’s hardly life imitating art just cos it happened on Knowing Me, Knowing You.
It’s not the first time something like this has happened.
I remember it happened to a fella in a shite 80 detective show about models and John Landis killed Vic Morrow and two little kids with his negligence via helicopter blades decapitating them on the set of The Twilight Zone movie.
It’s not the first time something like this has happened.
I remember it happened to a fella in a shite 80 detective show about models and John Landis killed Vic Morrow and two little kids with his negligence via helicopter blades decapitating them on the set of The Twilight Zone movie.
Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
I didn't know that about John Landis. That's horrific.
Reno
The In Kraut
When there is someone on set whose job it is to make sure there isn't a live round in the gun and who tells you there isn't, then you don't also check the weapon yourself. Actors can't be expected to be weapons experts. In 99.99 % of discharging a gun in a movie, nothing goes wrong.
nogojones
spelling is overrated
It would take five minutes to train an actor how to check if a weapon is loaded or not. It should be common practice given how many productions include firearms. 1 in 1000 isn't a great statistic to be pushing.
It sounds like the production company are a bunch of anti union, cost cutting cunts and I hope they get what's due, but somehow doubt they will.
There are plenty of reckless employers out there who commonly insist that this or that aspect of daily working practices are safe - after all, its in the shareholders financial interests to ensure that production runs smooth and is unlikely to disrupt profit accumulation.
Just as any alert electrician would check for themselves that the power fuse is removed before commencing any dangerous line work, this highly payed actor should have checked the weapon himself before it killed someone. i imagine Baldwin will think this himself don't you Reno?
Just as any alert electrician would check for themselves that the power fuse is removed before commencing any dangerous line work, this highly payed actor should have checked the weapon himself before it killed someone. i imagine Baldwin will think this himself don't you Reno?
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
From what I've read, he does bear some responsibilty as producer of the film rather than as an actor. They were employing non-union staff dues to possible strike action in Hollywood from crew unions, and concerns were raised over safety before the accident happened.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
No. It would need to be loaded, preferably with a live round.
Reno
The In Kraut
In hindsight when a rare accident happens, it's always easy to know better and then look smart on the internet afterwards. Productions employ weapons experts to make sure the weapons are safe to use, which in principle is safer than a 5 minute course.
He's more likely to be accountable as a producer if he was part of undermining safety proceedings, than for firing the weapon and an investigation will determine that. There are many different ways of being a producer on a film though and many stars have it in their contract to get a producers credit if the production goes all or in part hours through their own company.
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Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I just don’t like him as a person so am willing to make all sorts of assumptions
Reno
The In Kraut
He doesn't have a great reputation and I never much cared for him as an actor but I'm no fan of this type of online sleuthing, where people jump to conclusions before all the facts are known or where they become experts in onset safety procedures on the rare occasion when an accident makes headlines.
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Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Me neither, but I'm willing to make an exception for him
Reno
The In Kraut
No insurance company would insure a film production if actors were allowed to check a weapon themselves, as that is potentially dangerous. Any aspect of a professional film production has to be insured for it to go ahead. That's why they are supposed to employ a weapons expert to check the weapons before they are used.
nogojones
spelling is overrated
It's not hindsight though, it's happened before, and I'm sure there's been plenty of near misses that haven't made the headlines. I'm sorry, but having only one fail-safe - the armourer, is pretty sloppy. For something so potentially deadly it needs to be treated with more regard.
I was trained in this as a 14 year old when I was like in the air cadets and though I've not handled a weapon since I know that whoever handing it to me would show me it with the bolt back, and no rounds in the mag or chamber. I'd confirm back how it was and on handing it back I'd do the same. If a 14 year old can learn and retain that 30+ years later I'm sure an actor could (maybe not Johnny Depp though - just let him have plastic swords).
Likewise with other dangerous jobs I've done, e.g. if I spelled a crane driver I wouldn't just take his word that it was all working OK. I'd check the hoist, cross and long travel and the stop buttons the second I sat down. Hopefully something wouldn't be working, so it became a sparks/fitters problem, but also because it would be on me if I dropped a load on someone's head.
Reno
The In Kraut
See the post above yours. You may have your experience in the army, I have mine of actually having worked on Hollywood films and there are a gazillion legal requirements for insurance purposes to making a film.
nogojones
spelling is overrated
ha ha. It was like the cub scouts with guns.
If you take that attitude it will only happen again.
Edit. for clarification I wouldn't put the burden just on the actors, but that they would be an additional safeguard in the accidental discharge of a weapon as the current system clearly isn't safe.
Reno
The In Kraut
I'm not taking an attitude, I was explaining why movie stars are not going to be allowed to check the safety of guns on film sets. Accidents will always happen, thought there is enough publicity over this accident that some productions have already announced that they won't use real weapons anymore.
'The Rookie' bans 'live' weapons on set after fatal shooting on Alec Baldwin film
In the wake of the deadly shooting on the set of the Alec Baldwin film 'Rust,' the ABC police drama 'The Rookie' will no longer use 'live' weapons as props.
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Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Although I have no idea what the current system is, I'd hazard a guess that it is extremely safe... when carried out correctly. I'd also hazard a guess that it wasn't carried out correctly. That somebody bypassed at least one vital step in the procedure.
Making the actor check for a live round would have made no difference if that step was also ignored.
nogojones
spelling is overrated
From the article above safety concerns were already raised and it sounds like this outfit were a cut price, anti-union bunch that were doing their best to shaft their staff in the middle of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees dispute. But from my understanding, with all the productions from "new media" this is where the industry seems to be trying to go, so I can only see H&S problems becoming more common place.
The idea is to learn from accidents to ensure they don't happen again. Is it really that safe to rely on one persons word that the equipment you're using is safe? For a simple thing like this is doesn't to me.
If I'm getting on an airplane I have to put my faith in the crew who maintain and fly it, because I ain't got a scooby, but for a simple thing like this another failsafe is very easy to implement and costs next to nothing in time and money.
nogojones
spelling is overrated
The insurance companies may start to feel differently after having to pay out on this.I'm not taking an attitude, I was explaining why movie stars are not going to be allowed to check the safety of guns on film sets. Accidents will always happen, thought here is enough publicity over this accident that some productions already have announced they won't use real weapons anymore.
'The Rookie' bans 'live' weapons on set after fatal shooting on Alec Baldwin film
In the wake of the deadly shooting on the set of the Alec Baldwin film 'Rust,' the ABC police drama 'The Rookie' will no longer use 'live' weapons as props.ew.com
Anyway I'm starting to worry I sound like Keith Lard now so I'll step back a bit.
Reno
The In Kraut
Insurance companies have to pay out on accidents all the time, that's what they are there for. There is a good chance that a crime was committed here and if prosecuted, those who are found guilty will be held accountable. In the death which occurred during the production of the film Midnight Rider, which I linked to above, the director, screenwriter, producer and several other crew members were prosecuted, some got jail or house arrest and that was followed by civil lawsuits with multi-million dollar fines in compensation.
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Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
It obviously isn't safe to rely on one person's word, but is that all that was necessary, or should that person have shown somebody that the gun was safe before passing it to the actor?
What concerns me more is why real guns are used at all, but I think this incident might put a stop to that.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
The actors entire job is to point guns and pretend to fire them at people. Systems should be in place to ensure this takes place safely.
Here a great many people have fucked up.
Reading some of the papers this morning I was thrown by the explanation of a prop gun as being one that can fire both live and fake ammunition because what the fuck that sounds more like an actual gun than anything you'd use as a prop.
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