My son goes to secondary next year where apparently they must have an iPad. Post Covid teaching I guess.
WhatsApp lowers age limit to 13 in UK
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quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
This. 5 on my family whatsapp and all had it before they were 13, never mind 16.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
An actual Apple device or a tablet?
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
Good luck staying technologically ahead then. I really mean it
. In my experience they always find the new stuff and the adults are often playing catch up.On a separate note:
The self harm stuff is harrowing af... How would a parent prevent what happened to Molly for example? Now, with hindsight, sure. She had to die for the awareness to come. For those who haven't heard of her: Molly Russell inquest: Online life was 'the bleakest of worlds'
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souljacker
innit
I think parents need to care a bit more. I never gave access to anything online to my kids until we had a discussion about what it was, how it works, what the dangers are. They know what to do if they see something bad and they know that they can have the phone taken off them at any time. They also know that I will take the phone off them to check at any time if I think it's been used to do something sketchy.
That aside, I really don't think whatsapp is a problem. They block and report randoms who try and talk to them and this week I've had a chat with them about the group thing that has been in the news. I'm far more worried about snapchat and tiktok. Snapchat because they all share their locations on it, which I've forced my two to switch off and Tik Tok because it is stealing lots of your personal info.
As long as you are talking, warning and controlling their access, smartphones are useful. There are also things they HAVE to have one for, like their bus passes which is all on an app now and their bank accounts which is mostly app based. These things are becoming required rather than optional so you're fighting against the inevitable by refusing them access to one.
That aside, I really don't think whatsapp is a problem. They block and report randoms who try and talk to them and this week I've had a chat with them about the group thing that has been in the news. I'm far more worried about snapchat and tiktok. Snapchat because they all share their locations on it, which I've forced my two to switch off and Tik Tok because it is stealing lots of your personal info.
As long as you are talking, warning and controlling their access, smartphones are useful. There are also things they HAVE to have one for, like their bus passes which is all on an app now and their bank accounts which is mostly app based. These things are becoming required rather than optional so you're fighting against the inevitable by refusing them access to one.
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
I couldn't disagree more, sorry. Caring isn't enough. Lots of parents go through this and it's bigger than 'caring parenting'. Teenagers don't tell their parents everything!!! When have they ever??? If it was just a matter of parents trying to control/monitor internet access it would be so simple. It clearly isn't.
The greedy billionaires making money out of social media need to tighten things up and be held accountable, similarly for the government, in terms making corporations accountable for this shit shower.
ETA: A clear example was the algorithm that fed Molly darker and darker self harm content because that's what it was meant to do: give you what you want. Allegedly that's now been changed in light of what happened to Molly. There's plenty that can be done in the industry to make the internet a bit safer. Sure, the parents need to have talks and educate their children and put up some restraints but if it's only them fighting the deluge of information and darkness on the web what chance do they stand????
The greedy billionaires making money out of social media need to tighten things up and be held accountable, similarly for the government, in terms making corporations accountable for this shit shower.
ETA: A clear example was the algorithm that fed Molly darker and darker self harm content because that's what it was meant to do: give you what you want. Allegedly that's now been changed in light of what happened to Molly. There's plenty that can be done in the industry to make the internet a bit safer. Sure, the parents need to have talks and educate their children and put up some restraints but if it's only them fighting the deluge of information and darkness on the web what chance do they stand????
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souljacker
innit
Well, it's worked for me and my kids. They have very mature attitudes about what they use their phones for and what the dangers are. They often tell me about dodgy stuff that happens in school group chats and have left groups before I've had a chance to tell them to.
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
great, good for you. You are an outstanding parent! And your children are mentally sound and sensible.
souljacker
innit
Also, just to add, of course they don't tell me everything. I don't want them to. But they do know that the internet is a very dangerous place and they need be careful. They know that because I've talked to them about it right from the first time they ever used a PC or a tablet.
souljacker
innit
Why do I feel like I'm being patronised here.
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
Because you are using yourself as an example while underhandedly dismissing the huge amount of parents & kids who have gone through some really horrible shit, through no fault of their own. You're kinda saying it's their own fault, rather than the way social media is designed to work, which is very damaging to a very considerable amount of young people/children. That's probably why...
A bit more context here of how much of it is out of parents hands
Molly Russell inquest: social media ‘almost impossible’ to keep track of, says teacher
Headteacher describes ‘terrible shock’ at north London school after 14-year-old killed herself in 2017
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souljacker
innit
Yeah, I am dismissing parents who have handed over a £1000 iphone to their kid at 6 years old and given them free rein. You've got to control it as much as possible.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
How does this work exactly? Good parents somehow predict the latest piece of tech before it's invented? And figure out a way to protect their kids from risks that aren't yet known?
The internet is a giant petri dish. Some cunt sneezes on it once and then there are endless opportunities for whatever comes out to multiply, mutate, share genetics with nasty shit that's already in there. And then the very worst pathogen out of all that, the most effective dopamine vampire, that is the one that survives at the expense of everything else. The best possible immune system is only ever reactive, it is perpetually on the back foot responding to whatever fresh hell manifests itself. So it is with anything or anyone trying to protect kids, or anyone else, from the dangers the internet creates.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
My school is pretty good with this. The kids get a printed copy of their timetable stuck into their school diary so if they're ever trying to bullshit you that they need their phones to check what lesson they're supposed to be in, you can just tell them to get their planner out. Online homework is set but kids are never given class time to do it (it's used as an easy time-filler at many other schools, and for cover lessons etc). Kids are expected to have calculators but we have spares in class. All of this means there's no wiggle room on phones, no valid reason to have it out in a lesson. Which in turn means we don't need draconian punishments so much. If I see a phone out in class (and this has only happened once in my time at this school) I take it and put it on my desk until the end of the lesson. If this happens again the kid loses the phone until the end of the day, a third time it's supposed to be a week but as far as I know that rarely if ever happens.
Schools where teachers let, or expect, kids to use phones for x, y and z are a nightmare to work in. Not unheard of to lose 10 or 20% of a lesson just bickering with kids about putting their phones away. My favourite was a year 8 girl actually phoning her mum in class to loudly complain about how I had accused her of using her phone in class.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
When I worked in an SEN school phones were taken off kids when they arrived and given back when they left to get the bus home. It was recognised that as a small school with a huge catchment area, social media stuff was important to the kids. But we spent a lot of curriculum time on online safety stuff. More than we'd be able to in a mainstream school. And the parents were generally very good. The kids' phones were not private and they all understood this. Most parents would go through every message and every contact. This also gave us at school a heads up about who had fallen out with who, which friendships were supportive and which needed to be kept an eye on etc. Luckily in an SEN school we had the class sizes and the number of pastoral support staff we actually needed to have this level of communication.
Mainstream school is a different kettle of fish. And in a bigger community the harm that can be done by the X% of parents who don't give a shit and the Y% of parents who actively make matters worse gets amplified.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Quite apart from all the safety stuff, I really don't know how parents can AFFORD to equip their kids with smartphones. I dropped mine down the bog a couple of weeks ago, and a replacement - a bottom-of-the-range Pixel 7 that no self-respecting teenager would be seen DEAD with - was the thick end of £400.
In my experience, children have a pretty poor understanding of the value of things, and loads of phones must get lost, stolen, dropped (not necessarily down the bog), and need replacing or repairing.
If you've got 2 or 3 kids, that's an astronomical expense, before you get onto data plans and so on.
In my experience, children have a pretty poor understanding of the value of things, and loads of phones must get lost, stolen, dropped (not necessarily down the bog), and need replacing or repairing.
If you've got 2 or 3 kids, that's an astronomical expense, before you get onto data plans and so on.
RevolutionSound
Well-Known Member
Many SEN kids aren't in school.
RevolutionSound
Well-Known Member
You buy reconditioned phones. A lot cheaper.
maomao
普費斯
I don't think that's ever happened. I do know a lot of kids whose parents work long hours and rely on mostly cheap phones to keep tabs on their kids though. Parenting is difficult and expensive and most people have to work full time throughout. Add on social and school pressure to have a phone and it's not as easy to fight as some of you are making out.
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
There's basically a lot of victim blaming. There's only so much parents can do. Children are raised by and within a society, by the system, and currently within social media. This is a completely new world/environment which parents themselves didn't grow up in, with technology that wasn't available even 10 years ago.
The lack of empathy and arrogance shown by some people is rather depressing to be honest. Empathy takes imagination...
The lack of empathy and arrogance shown by some people is rather depressing to be honest. Empathy takes imagination...
souljacker
innit
I live in quite a rich area (albeit in the cheap shitty bit) and there are kids that went to primary school with my kids who had iphones from very early ages.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Mummy and Daddy upgrade every two years?
souljacker
innit
Probably. My ex used to have some VERY rich mates who would diss Androids and, I quote, 'couldn't understand why people didn't buy the top spec iphone every 2 years'. Like, why would you buy the 64Gb one when there is a 128Gb available. They were batshit insane but they were quite typical of some of the people round here.
Thora
Differently Ethical
This exactly.
If I took my 13 year old's phone he would be cut out of all the social contact with his friends - it's not like the old days where you could phone each other's houses, no one has a phone at home anymore.
He wouldn't have his timetable, his homework planner (they don't have physical planners anymore), he wouldn't be able to see his behaviour points.
When the school was having problems with the cashless lunch system, the only children who got lunch were the ones that could show their ParentPay balance on the app on their phone.
And he'd still need a device at home to get access to the apps used for homework.
None of my family have got new phones, ipads or chromebooks - we buy everything reconditioned.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Kids didn't get fed as they had an issue with payment? That's pretty awful.
Thora
Differently Ethical
Yeah it was shit and after the second or third time it happened (he didn't have the bloody app but I had emailed the school about it) I went down to the school and took him home for lunch
because he'd texted me about it. Anyway he takes a packed lunch now.
Elpenor
Dancing as fast as I can
Cav Heights people you’re talking about here ?
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
I don't know about bus passes as he doesnt have one, but son's train photo card is an actual laminated card and he has a card for his bank account which he can use to pay with or withdraw cash. It's all pretty normal tbh.
souljacker
innit
Worse, Upper Basildon types. But heights people can be similar.
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