What's going on in the CIRCA thread?

[Sorry.]

Oh my lord. I have a long history of reporting violent and danerous crime that serves no purpose and can only hurt people to the police. I am proud of that.

Where the hell were we talking about reporting a violent and dangerous crime? You reported an entry on open media source, different things.

If I was I would happily be judged for what I felt I had to do and accept any sanction. I didnt do it 'secretly'. I still fail to understnd all the fuss you are all maknig about this....

The fuss is because your first reaction, without consultation, is to go to the police. Showing a total lack of any kind of responsibility toward or solidarity with other activists.

You made no attempt to discuss it with the BIM people who would end up taking the flak for your actions. Just deciding, unilaterally, how it should be dealt with.

How do you know BIM weren't already planning to help the police with their enquiries, or had already investigated themselves and discovered it was just kids mucking about (and I'll repeat again, did the rock throwing incident actually happen? and why did no one subsequently report it?). Can you conceive the difference between BIM coming forward with what help they could offer to the police after having discussed it among themselves, and them having the police demanding things from them on the back of a tip-off from a member of the public?

 

[IPRN]

It has already been asked several times if this rock-throwing incident actually happened. Local fascists have been posting all sorts of rubbish on Leeds-Bradford Indymedia recently, such as anti-fascists attacking children and a hit-man being hired to hunt down anti-fascists. I'm glad you didn't see these stories or you'd have probably rung your pals the cops. I may have political differences with the Leeds CIRCA crowd, but I'd be very surprised if any of them are less disgusted with your behaviour than most of the other posters on here. You are dangerous, and I really hope you are quickly ostrasized, and that one day your touting catches up with you.

Nobody on here has defended throwing rocks at trains - But it remains to be seen if any incident of this kind occurred or not.

Nobody likes a grass.

 

[Sorry.]

I can't believe that all of us are more concern about indymedia than possible people hurt or worse killed.. people got killed in the past for that, at least in my country happened, once to a young woman in her car hit by a stone.

Where's the evidence that the rock throwing actually happened?

You must have no consciousness at all!

What because we think that things like informing the police aren't done lightly? As someone who's been arrested because of something that was passed on out of context for a bit of a laugh, I tend to think first...

I have lots of respect for Indymedia but they should have been the first at calling the police, if they did not.

and there's no evidence to say they didn't, only Zaskar's kneejerk assumption.

 

[IPRN]

Zaskar's kneejerk assumption.

Phoning the cops does seem to be second nature to him.

Are you on the payroll Zaskar?

People have to ask themselves if they'd want someone like this in a meeting with them.

 

[Sorry.]

Phoning the cops does seem to be second nature to him.

Are you on the payroll Zaskar?

People have to ask themselves if they'd want someone like this in a meeting with them.

a colleague told me she wanted to throw her computer out the window today, maybe I should tell the police?

 

[IPRN]

I really hope that this is going to be written up for Indymedia, so that people know not to work with this character, and so that in 5 years time there won't be those who deny this has even happened.

 

[badnewswade]

Boasting about stupid crimes is really big and clever!

Really, what the fuck do you guys expect?

Someone goes on IM and posts: "Hey man, let's off some pigs. I dropped some rocks onto a moving train, it was great! Save the planet by killing the people on it", etc, etc, etc. BIM leave it up and someone calls the cops. What a surprise!

Personally I'm kind of pissed off with the asshole who thinks that major criminal damage / attempted murder is somehow a political act, and that BIM is there for such people to boast about their extremely antisocial and life threataning behaviour.

I'm not a little pissed off about merely being associated with such... persons, either. Frankly, if that's your idea of activism and peace and progress and humanity, maaan, then consider me a fascist pig.

 

[IPRN]

E-mail? Telephone? (did you even try?)
You stated earlier that you knew for a fact that BIM never get any hassle from the police, that would imply a fairly intimate knowledge of those involved.

According to a post on Bristol Indymedia, Zaskar is a former member of the collective.

 

[Sorry.]

Really, what the fuck do you guys expect?

Someone goes on IM and posts: "Hey man, let's off some pigs. I dropped some rocks onto a moving train, it was great! Save the planet by killing the people on it", etc, etc, etc. BIM leave it up and someone calls the cops. What a surprise!


Personally I'm kind of pissed off with the asshole who thinks that major criminal damage / attempted murder is somehow a political act, and that BIM is there for such people to boast about their extremely antisocial and life threataning behaviour.

I'm not a little pissed off about merely being associated with such... persons, either. Frankly, if that's your idea of activism and peace and progress and humanity, maaan, then consider me a fascist pig.

Have you actually read any of the posts questioning Zaskar? and if you have, why are you dribbling on like anyone on here thinks dropping rocks on trains is a good thing to do?

 

[IPRN]

From Bristol Indymedia

"Let's be clear.

This is not about IMC UK. This is about Indymedia Bristol.

A post which quite frankly is pretty unintelligable talks about picking up and dropping rocks onto metal. It's not clear from the post whether that means onto some cars that were on a train trasnport, onto the transport itself or onto the rail line. It is also unclear if the thing was moving or not.

'Zasker' is the person who seems to know most about the incident and seems to have knowledge about what happened.

'Zasker' an ex-member of Bristol Indymedia who has been in conflict with others in the BIMC collective, contacts the police and tells them go get the Bristol Indymedia servers and they can get the IP address of who ever made this post.

Now while I would not condone any damage to property that might endanger life, I would also not condone telling the police details about Indymedia collective members, or the webservers - and certainly not encouraging the police to start making fools of themselves by telling them to go after Indymedia servers. "

 

[IPRN]

Zaskar, if someone posts something on here you believe to be unlawful and anti-social are you going to tell the cops to go and get the U75 servers?

 

[badnewswade]

Where the hell were we talking about reporting a violent and dangerous crime? You reported an entry on open media source, different things.

He reported an asshole who was boasting about throwing rocks at moving trains.

The fuss is because your first reaction, without consultation, is to go to the police. Showing a total lack of any kind of responsibility toward or solidarity with other activists.

I didn't know that members of the public owed anything to BIM, much less "solidarity and responsibility" towards psychos who endager other people's lives then brag about it. And I'm sure Zaskar didn't know that such people were now "activists" and not loonies who walked in off the street to big up their behaviour.

You made no attempt to discuss it with the BIM people who would end up taking the flak for your actions. Just deciding, unilaterally, how it should be dealt with.

Again, why does Zaskar or anyone else who claps eyes on that PUBLIC bulletin board owe the time of day to the people who run it? Your attempt to infuse the owners of a crap bulletin board with fake authority over the people who look at it is a faliure already. Give it up.

 

[IPRN]

He reported an asshole who was boasting about throwing rocks at moving trains.




I didn't know that members of the public owed anything to BIM, much less "solidarity and responsibility" towards psychos who endager other people's lives then brag about it. And I'm sure Zaskar didn't know that such people were now "activists" and not loonies who walked in off the street to big up their behaviour.



Again, why does Zaskar or anyone else who claps eyes on that PUBLIC bulletin board owe the time of day to the people who run it? Your attempt to infuse the owners of a crap bulletin board with fake authority over the people who look at it is a faliure already. Give it up.

Why don't you at least read this thread before you start posting on it?

 

[badnewswade]

Have you actually read any of the posts questioning Zaskar?

I read the orignal post where some waterhead gibbers on about bricking car transporter trains.

and if you have, why are you dribbling on like anyone on here thinks dropping rocks on trains is a good thing to do?

Oh. Is it just bragging about dropping rocks onto trains that's a good idea? Why is Zaskar a filthy grass because he exposes a scary nutball who readily admits to life threatening behavoir?

Zaskar has done you spods a favour. People who boast about stuff like that on the boards (a) incriminate everyone else on the board and (b) make real activists look really bad. And (c) incite others to do similar stuff. And (d), and (e).

Personally if I wasn't a complete wimp and known phsyical coward I'd be offering to find the twerp who made that post and kick his head in. It's amazing to me how many of the so called activists around here haven't come to the same conclusion- surely one of you is macho and intelligent enough to understand the damage this post has done to your credibility?

 

[Zaskar]

This getting rather unpleasent and some of you really are showing yourselves up a bit here.

The crime was real unless the police offer I spoke to is lying, which it appears from the some of some of your posts you may actually believe.

Several large rocks were dropped on a moving train and the original post celebrated this and encouraged others to do the same.

I encourage doubters to check themselves.
The investigating officer is:

DC 1062 Saysell
Temple Meads CID.
01179 348585
07786 083444

I am sorry I have to say this but the conversations on the BIM list were all about how terrible I am and there was nothing indicating that any one was the least concerned about the seriousness of the rock dropping. No one actually appeared to think it might be a good idea to actually help the police.

And yes I was a bimmer but I really dont do well in groups, I am kind of borderline aspergers and have poor social skills, especially in groups. Anyway I fell out with another mod who I felt flouted guidelines by promoting his own club nights in the site and it all got messy and unpleasent. I also made a crass gag (verY) and said on the list the bim 'was like the womens institute' this was felt to be sexist and resulted in my expulsion.

I am reluctant to post the list e mails as they are private correspondence but I assure you they were as I described.

Hope this clears up a few points.

Please can I ask again for all this threatening language and abuse to be cooled off a bit. I am a real person and this is hurtfull. Thanks.

I am sure we can discuss this and disagree without all this hate.

 

[butchersapron]

Of course the unstated context is the above clown (badnewswade - genetic in his case i think) and zaskars long running feud with BIM and certain people involved - the OB aren't the only ones using this as a weapon with which to beat BIM.

 

[butchersapron]

According to a post on Bristol Indymedia, Zaskar is a former member of the collective.

IPRN approaches the truth of certian peoples motivations with this...

 

[Zaskar]

Zaskar, if someone posts something on here you believe to be unlawful and anti-social are you going to tell the cops to go and get the U75 servers?

That is a stupid question.

If someone reported and celbrated a crime such as throwing rocks on trians I suspect the mods would remove the post PDQ and possibly report the post to the police.

Personally if I saw a post like the one on BIM on here I suspect many would insist the police were contacted and many might do as I did. Other bim readers did as i did REMEMBER.......

The police do not want to sieze BIM drives they only want info that m,ight help these dangerous people from seroius;ly injuring members of the public, honestly, what is wrong with you people, cant you argue withut resort to abuse and conflation.

 

[Sorry.]

He reported an asshole who was boasting about throwing rocks at moving trains.

No he didn't, he reported BIM - the results of his actions were brought down upon them.

I didn't know that members of the public owed anything to BIM, much less "solidarity and responsibility" towards psychos who endager other people's lives then brag about it. And I'm sure Zaskar didn't know that such people were now "activists" and not loonies who walked in off the street to big up their behaviour.

Right, that's fine, if you don't think we owe anything to other activists (and you know full well I'm talking about BIM collective, not these people who may or may not have attacked a train) then you shouldn't be surprised if as IPRN has suggested if you aren't welcome or trusted in their company anymore.

Again, why does Zaskar or anyone else who claps eyes on that PUBLIC bulletin board owe the time of day to the people who run it? Your attempt to infuse the owners of a crap bulletin board with fake authority over the people who look at it is a faliure already. Give it up.

He doesn't owe them anything as someone who browses their board, he owes them something as someone who proclaims themself to be some kind of left activist.

 

[Zaskar]

IPRN approaches the truth of certian peoples motivations with this...

No, that is ridiculous.

My denial is likely to be ignored as i seem to be in some sort of kangeroo court baying for blood..... Look at yourselves......

I have no fued with bim, i just think they are a bit crap but of course I wish them well with thier endevour.

 

[butchersapron]

No, that is ridiculous.

My denial is likely to be ignored as i seem to be in some sort of kangeroo court baying for blood..... Look at yourselves......

I have no fued with bim, i just think they are a bit crap but of course I wish them well with thier endevour.

No one believes you any more - no one (except the monkey). This is just one more incident in a pretty pathetic and transparent campaign as far as i'm, concerned - and every single other person that i've talked to about this/you agrees.

 

[Zaskar]

I really hope that this is going to be written up for Indymedia, so that people know not to work with this character, and so that in 5 years time there won't be those who deny this has even happened.

Actually, I hope it is all written up. BIM clearly need a policy decision on posts that encourage life threatening actions that appear pointless and dangerous.... I would have thoufght it was clearly againsrt existing g lines to post in the manner of the original story....

I have very very many people who work with me reglarly and I really am not sure what you mean about people not working with me.

Being ostracised by you nasty lot is a sanction I think I can bear...

 

[Zaskar]

No one believes you any more - no one (except the monkey). This is just one more incident in a pretty pathetic and transparent campaign as far as i'm, concerned - and every single other person that i've talked to about this/you agrees.

Well I am pleased for you, but it is actually not true and is symptomatic of all that i loathed about bim and many activist groups. I dont actually care, at all... sorry.

Some activists really are not particulary wholesome or decent people are they ?

Sorry said - " He doesn't owe them anything as someone who browses their board, he owes them something as someone who proclaims themself to be some kind of left activist. "

The term is mutable, I am certainly have no wish to be associated with rock droppers, defenders of rock droppers, or the type of person reguritating offensive and hurtfull stuff at me and about me here. So by your own ends I owe them nothing.

 

[butchersapron]

Well I am pleased for you, but it is actually not true and is symptomatic of all that i loathed about bim and many activist groups. I dont actually care, at all... sorry.

Some activists really are not particulary wholesome or decent people are they ?

Nor are some people who claim not be activists but who act as parasites on their activity. All with one eye on the mirror and the other on their career.

 

[badnewswade]

Right, that's fine, if you don't think we owe anything to other activists (and you know full well I'm talking about BIM collective, not these people who may or may not have attacked a train) then you shouldn't be surprised if as IPRN has suggested if you aren't welcome or trusted in their company anymore.

Hey, if you're talking to me, then guess what? I don't really WANT to be in the company of a bunch of fuckwits like that, people who might get the cops sicced on their readers by allowing dangerous nutters to boast about their crimes on their site. Seriously, what's next? Maybe the ALF will bomb something and these fucktards'll be going on about how great this is, and the next thing you know we all get a visit from the Old Bill.

Nice.

He doesn't owe them anything as someone who browses their board, he owes them something as someone who proclaims themself to be some kind of left activist.

I love the way BIM are allowed to "proclaim" themselves left activists, but nobody else is allowed to do anything without having officially approved of anything and everything BIM might do, now or in the future.

Perhaps they could trade mark the concept. LeftActivismTM: "When I'm vandalising things and endangering people's lives, there's nothing I like to do more than brag about it to BRISTOL INDYMEDIA(R). LeftActivismTM: Elitist, selfish, violent, and unaccountable. Exactly the opposite of what it says on the tin."

 

[Sorry.]

Oh. Is it just bragging about dropping rocks onto trains that's a good idea?

No. Stop being a disingenuous arse.

Why is Zaskar a filthy grass because he exposes a scary nutball who readily admits to life threatening behavoir?

Because he did so unilaterally and automatically, without consulting people who he knows well as former-colleagues.

Zaskar has done you spods a favour. People who boast about stuff like that on the boards (a) incriminate everyone else on the board and (b) make real activists look really bad. And (c) incite others to do similar stuff. And (d), and (e).

Personally if I wasn't a complete wimp and known phsyical coward I'd be offering to find the twerp who made that post and kick his head in. It's amazing to me how many of the so called activists around here haven't come to the same conclusion- surely one of you is macho and intelligent enough to understand the damage this post has done to your credibility?

No he hasn't, he's basically accused of BIM of condoning the content of the post and both of you have accused most of the people on this thread of condoning it.

 

[Zaskar]

Nor are some people who claim not be activists but who act as parasites on their activity. All with one eye on the mirror and the other on their career.

I am a nurse that is my career. What on earth do you mean ? i have never made any money from film making ever, it has cost me lots of money , a few run ins with the police, but strangely it is people like you, activists, who are the most unpleasent.... Fesity lot for sure.

I dont mind very often, I just love maknig films and if I can help out a group whose aims are not contrary to my belifs than I enjoy doing so.

 

[butchersapron]

I am a nurse that is my career. What on earth do you mean ? i have never made any money from film making ever, it has cost me lots of money , a few run ins with the police, but strangely it is people like you, activists, who are the most unpleasent.... Fesity lot for sure.

I dont mind very often, I just love maknig films and if I can help out a group whose aims are not contrary to my belifs than I enjoy doing so.

What on earth do i mean? You know exactly what i mean. As does any other person unfortunate to have had you following them with your camera.

Ask yourself why there is trail of argumensts and disruption following in your wake - here, other places and in real life. Why is that?

 

[Sorry.]

Sorry said - " He doesn't owe them anything as someone who browses their board, he owes them something as someone who proclaims themself to be some kind of left activist. "

The term is mutable, I am certainly have no wish to be associated with rock droppers, defenders of rock droppers, or the type of person reguritating offensive and hurtfull stuff at me and about me here. So by your own ends I owe them nothing.

As far as I'm aware I've done none of the above. Nor have you illustrated that BIM are "defenders of rock droppers", given that you went to the police with no prior discussion with them.

 

[DaveCinzano]

thread turned out better than i thought it would