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What should the punishment be for swearing at a teacher?

madzone

madzone

Physically unfavourable
My youngest got excluded for 3 days a couple of weeks ago for telling a teacher to fuck off. It ended up being 4 days because they can't go back into school until they've been interviewed be a senior member of staff and none were available.

So, he's done it again. He mumbled it at a teacher when she'd pissed him off and a passing teacher heard him. He has adhd and it mainly presents itself in hyperactivity but he also has major oppositional issues. The school deals out really heavy handed punishments for stuff like this and I think they paint themselves into a corner.

I've actually been working really closely with the school since September and after a rocky start we seemed to be actually getting somewhere. There was a very useful meeting with the Ed Psych where she was able to tell them that most of the stuff they're seeing from him is related to the adhd. However, the school are still working from the pov that if he 'gets away with it' then they'll have to let other kids 'get away' with it too.

Anyway - he's done it again (different teacher) and they want to put him in internal exclusion for a week. That means he's in a room on his own all day with different lunch breaks and different start/finish times to the rest of the school. I'm not happy with it because I think it's going to create more problems than it solves.

They're open to discussion and I agree that he shouldn't be allowed to swear at a teacher with no repercussion at all but I'd like the repercussions to be useful. Putting him in internal exclusion just makes him angry and more likely to kick off.

Any ideas?
 
We'd do internal exclusion, but not for 5 days. Maybe one day, only more if they refused to apologise. We are a very strict school.
 
He was properly excluded for 3 days. I thought that was a bit extreme myself. Especially for a special needs kid. He always apologises.
 
A three day external exclusion would be for something much more serious. Bullying, stealing or something. Is there anyone on SLT who is approachable to talk this through with?
 
I got in trouble at school for telling a teacher to fut off when i was 5 but it was only a ticking off and telling my mum.
 
Can the Ed Psych come up with any meaningful coping strategies on this? I worked with a kid with similar problems and once I started working with the Ed Psych with strategies the exclusions dropped away drastically.
 
Maybe there are of the opinion that only they can discipline him, as you aware that he needs there to be a consequence for his swearing could you suggest maybe punishing him at home? I dunno an xbox ban or pocket money, that way he's stll being punished but his schooling won't suffer.

I realise that's difficult for the school as they need to be seen by the other kids repremanding him somehow.

A week is very harsh, sounds to me like the school are setting him up for a fall.
 
I know Pickman's is probably joking, but a constructive punishment is more useful than what they are doing now. And maybe making him read a really challenging book and look up the words in the dictionary is a good thing to do. When kids are in internal exclusion what do they do all day? I should know this, as my son has been once or twice, but I actually don't know.
 
Depends on context. I had a kid tell me to fuck off this week, but I know how he is, the context he said it in and that he's got some problems so I made it clear it wasn't on but didn't kick his arse for it.

What lizzieloo said basically, sounds like they're setting him up to fail :(
 
girasol said:
I know Pickman's is probably joking, but a constructive punishment is more useful than what they are doing now. And maybe making him read a really challenging book and look up the words in the dictionary is a good thing to do. When kids are in internal exclusion what do they do all day? I should know this, as my son has been once or twice, but I actually don't know.
Click to expand...
They just do work set by the teacher but on their own.

If one of my students swore at me I would probably laugh. I think 5 year old chinese kids telling me to fuck off would be funny:D
 
If it's related to his adhd then shouldn't the school react differently than they do with other pupils swearing?
 
I think you should stress that this punishment is not constructive. As he apologises it isn't that he doesn't feel remorse for swearing at them, that's not the point of the punishment so it seems to me that they are just putting their foot down. Fair enough, they have to enforce their authority but they have to do so in a way which without further disenfranchising him, if he has a problem with authority then the punishments should not be aimed at sticking it to him but to get him to take responsibility for his behaviour. What is internal exclusion going to teach him about responsibility? Fuck all. It will only reinforce his opposition to them.

When will people stop trying to 'break their will'? :(
I've had it with my son's school and I tell you it wasn't until the Ed Psyche confirmed what I was telling them until they took a more effective approach. And that was after they tried to pack my big off to mental health services.
 
I was listening to a programme on using restorative justice in schools the other day instead of exclusions. It's much more effective. Exclusions are a fucking stupid way of punishing children, I've never understood how they think that will make children behave 'better'.
 
ShiftyBagLady said:
When will people stop trying to 'break their will'? :(
I've had it with my son's school and I tell you it wasn't until the Ed Psyche confirmed what I was telling them until they took a more effective approach. And that was after they tried to pack my big off to mental health services.
Click to expand...

THIS. My profession needs a kicking sometimes.
 
I was put on internal suspension for a week, I had to shadow the deputy head. So I had a week sat in his nice warm office drinking tea and dunking biscuits, with the odd lesson to attend, sat behind him, facing the class, pulling faces. Plus I got to sit on the stage during assembly :cool:
 
I've sent an email saying that I think they paint themsleves into a corner by setting such severe punishments so easily and that they perhaps need to get some perspective on the situation. I've said they can go ahead with it today but anything after that doesn't have mine or mr mad'zs support.

I'm willing to work with them to find a constructive solution as it's clearly not ok to be swearing at the teachers but he still has teachers being less than supportive and saying 'That's nothing to do with adhd' yet when you ask them how adhd is likely to manifest in a school setting they can't fucking tell you :facepalm:

I dunno. The head isn't going to be happy. He knows I can't stand him and he also knows I can run rings round him in an argument (if I manage not to lose my temper first :D) They make all this npise about being a modern school but they're still stcuk in the fucking dark ages when it comes to stuff like this.

I'm not keen on punishing hbim at home when it's something to do with school as I want to keep it separate and not overload him. We do use sanctions at home but we try to use rewards as well (I say 'we') He's grounded tonight for burning stuff in his room and not handing over the lighter when he was told but he's alos getting something to the value of £20 because he managed a whole week without telling a teacher to fuck off (not sure i could do that tbh). So, it's ind of complicated enough for him at home right now.

I might suggest some kind of restorative justice thing *toddles off to research it a bit*
 
i'm reminded of draco* who is said to have commented on his own rulings
"We need the death penalty to prevent small crimes, and for bigger ones I can't think of any greater punishment."

*as in draconian
 
Surely, the punishment for swearing at a teacher should be that the teacher swears back harder and shows you a thing or two about how to swear properly?
 
ShiftyBagLady said:
I think you should stress that this punishment is not constructive. As he apologises it isn't that he doesn't feel remorse for swearing at them, that's not the point of the punishment so it seems to me that they are just putting their foot down. Fair enough, they have to enforce their authority but they have to do so in a way which without further disenfranchising him, if he has a problem with authority then the punishments should not be aimed at sticking it to him but to get him to take responsibility for his behaviour. What is internal exclusion going to teach him about responsibility? Fuck all. It will only reinforce his opposition to them.<snip>
Click to expand...
^^^This.
 
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