*What book are you reading? (part 2)

[N_igma]

Was flicking through this thread a while back and saw a book called Perdido Street Station that looked interesting.

So I bought it and read it and I'm thinking do people pronounce it Dreams hit or Dream shit lol?

Great book btw, first time being exposed to the whole steampunk genre. Futuristic and Victorian feel at the same time, although I did think spending the first 70 odd pages describing how much of a shit hole New Crobuzon is was a tad too much. Definitely be reading the other two books of the series anyway.

 

[Orang Utan]

Give the author some credit, N_igma ! China Miéville wrote it!

 

[Autochthonous1]

Frances Lengel, I've been checking out Denis Johnson, and yes I do quite like him. Thank you. Confessions of a Crap Artist sounds right up my alley, so I'll be dipping into that after I've finished current book about Elliott Smith.

 

[imposs1904]

Do Androids Dream of Electric Dick

Nearly.

 

[sojourner]

Hey you, no, I really wasn't thinking you were digging at me at all... I have liked our posts here. There was no defensiveness in anyway (I certainly didn't mean to sound defensive and that's why I put the smiley in too). This is why I have issues with internet chit-chat, irl you would've seen I wasn't being defensive or thought you were having a dig; I literally was asking/wondering what your point was (re the 90% thing). My thoughts of that claim were sceptical...well, I don't doubt that some psychologist found that 65% of some women, somewhere in the industry were abused, but what areas of the industry and where, what workers? As I said; I worked in the industry for years and don't recall meeting many at all. I know more women who've been abused who aren't in the industry - so I just don't get the statistics. I'd assume the 90% were prostitutes, not strippers or pornstars. Most of the strippers I met were very confident, ballsy, gutsy, in control. Pornstars too, mostly, they were in charge of their ''business'', their bodies, their own boss. Where as prostitutes *generally* are not...perhaps?
Sorry to hear about your past Soj, brave of you to say that on here. Mucho respect. Went to the anti-pope march a couple of years ago and that was a gruelling day/protest, met so many brave people.

As for the English language, I love it too. A bit of word smithery turns me on. I grew up listening to John Cooper Clarke, he was my hero. Inspired my pen to move in different ways, but most people don't know what I bang on about half the time (especially after not much sleep). I detest Grammar Nazi's though; people who go 'round pointing out ''you're'' and ''your'', fair enough if it's a thread about grammar/language etc. In the case of my post though, ''unconducive'' is a word, perhaps I didn't use it in the correct way during my insomniatical daze? I said that I found too many aspects of feminism hindering, even: http://thesaurus.com/browse/unconducive, meaning damaging, etc? Let's not discuss the feminism bit now, eh...
I disagree. The pornstar just has to be a good business person - strong willed/minded. If they are naive/easily manipulated/stupid they will get underpaid/exploited - which can happen in any business though, right? And one of the reasons I thought the porn industry was so fabulous (apart from the fact you got paid to orgasm) was because it was one of the very few professions in which women got paid more than the men. Look, I know all about the nasty side of the industry, but being wise, clued up, pretty tough too, I was never exploited; I chose what/where/when I wanted to shoot and who to ''do it'' with. I didn't do anything I didn't want, and got paid double than any man I worked with (though once I got paid more than a trans* woman, which wasn't right... but queer porn is a whole other kettle of sharks). I was happy with what I was paid. I didn't do many shoots. I ''got out'' and worked behind the camera, then in other parts of the industry, including being a sex surrogate for people with disabilities. I love the sex industry. The good parts. It can be great for some people to work in. Awful for others. You have to work it, not let it work you. Such a cliche, eh, but true.

Good - glad you weren't and glad I was wrong

Funny - that word - it's not in the Oxford English or the Cambridge, but that site you picked out is an American one I do use sometimes mainly for the thesaurus. If we were playing Scrabble, I'd not let you have it

I'd love to discuss the 'feminism bit' again - I feel it's intrinsically linked to the discussion.

Re your experiences - perhaps down to being that 'loophole woman'? Neither of us should generalise really. That statistic related to a spectrum of sex-workers I believe. Am maddened now that I can't look it up!

Oh, and I am a fucking terrible pedant ha Cannot HELP myself. It's out of my mouth/fingers before I even know it. Meaning is everything in language - that's why we communicate, and if you use the wrong word in the wrong way you communicate a different meaning. Feel free to detest me all you like

 

[sojourner]

Anyway anyway anyway - got a fab haul from the library yesterday! I am determined to get the most out of it

So, I got:

Nick Davies - Flat Earth News, which I'm gonna read first cos had to order it (oh, and with thanks to DotCommunist for mentioning it and drawing my attention to it)
Jeanette Winterson – The Daylight Gate
Will Self – Umbrella
Vonnegut - Cat's Cradle (for the fella, cos he fancied reading it again)

I was gonna get Division Street too by Helen Mort but thought I'd best be getting on with the others first!

 

[belboid]

Nick Davies - Flat Earth News, which I'm gonna read first cos had to order it (oh, and with thanks to DotCommunist for mentioning it and drawing my attention to it)
Jeanette Winterson – The Daylight Gate
Will Self – Umbrella
Vonnegut - Cat's Cradle (for the fella, cos he fancied reading it again)

all corkers (with the possible exception of Umbrella, which I still haven't got round to yet)

 

[sojourner]

all corkers (with the possible exception of Umbrella, which I still haven't got round to yet)

It's quite a trick, trying to find decent books in there tbh! The other day I put in 10 different titles and they had none of them.

 

[flypanam]

Managed to get halfway through Gemmel's 'Druss the Legend' before bed last night. Gemmel is the most shameles amongst shameless swords and sorcery tellers.Every hero is a HERO. Every villain has a henchman who just made some bad choices and has a wife. There is holy wise men and a semi agrarian economy. How does he get away with this?

He doesn't. He's dead.

 

[Orang Utan]

Good - glad you weren't and glad I was wrong

Funny - that word - it's not in the Oxford English or the Cambridge, but that site you picked out is an American one I do use sometimes mainly for the thesaurus. If we were playing Scrabble, I'd not let you have it

I'd love to discuss the 'feminism bit' again - I feel it's intrinsically linked to the discussion.

Re your experiences - perhaps down to being that 'loophole woman'? Neither of us should generalise really. That statistic related to a spectrum of sex-workers I believe. Am maddened now that I can't look it up!

Oh, and I am a fucking terrible pedant ha Cannot HELP myself. It's out of my mouth/fingers before I even know it. Meaning is everything in language - that's why we communicate, and if you use the wrong word in the wrong way you communicate a different meaning. Feel free to detest me all you like

Can I just interject to say that unconducive IS in the OED. It's not an obscure word.

 

[Autochthonous1]

Funny - that word - it's not in the Oxford English or the Cambridge, but that site you picked out is an American one I do use sometimes mainly for the thesaurus. If we were playing Scrabble, I'd not let you have it

I'd love to discuss the 'feminism bit' again - I feel it's intrinsically linked to the discussion. Re your experiences - perhaps down to being that 'loophole woman'? Neither of us should generalise really.
That statistic related to a spectrum of sex-workers I believe. Am maddened now that I can't look it up!

Oh, and I am a fucking terrible pedant ha Cannot HELP myself. It's out of my mouth/fingers before I even know it. Meaning is everything in language - that's why we communicate, and if you use the wrong word in the wrong way you communicate a different meaning. Feel free to detest me all you like

I love words, and unwords. Was raised by Canadians so perhaps that's why I use American words sometimes (never American spelling though). Of course, a wrong word or misplaced/misused grammar can change the whole meaning of a sentence, but ''meaning is everything'' partly, I see it as: communication is expression, that's everything, so generally, if I get what a person is getting at/where they're coming from, I overlook little errors (unless the topic itself is about spelling/grammar, for instance), or unless I'm genuinely confused by those blunders. I've seen it on here; people ''debating'' and someone comes from out of nowhere with their superiority complex and points out a grammatical/spelling error, just to belittle that poster. There is no need for that. Tells me more about the belittler than the bad speller, far more. I know you'd not do that, just to be mean. Just makes me mad when I do see it.

I dunno, I hate these feminist terms. I hate labels. Feminism likes its labels. Yeah, I could partly, sometimes, describe myself as a ''loophole woman'' in the sense I generally don't get thrills out of baking cupcakes or going shopping, won't wear floral dresses, watch romcoms and read stupid hetronormative gossip magazines whilst getting my nails done. I don't actually belittle women who rather perfectly fit into the norms of womanhood; I just don't like to hang out with them. I don't want to pop out babies either. I want to work, party, travel and fuck. Shit loads.

About the women-in-sex-industry-being-abused statistic, well, I dunno, I'd be more interested in a statistic about the percentage of fast-food industry employees who were sexually abused as children/teenagers. Attaching sensationalist facts and figures to the sex industry is what anyone outside the industry loves to do, to despise/blame/devalue/control. As for ''sex workers'', it's such a huge spectrum, I'd love to know who this psychologist asked/studied, and how. From erotic peep show girls to hardcore gangbanged submissive pornstars to loving sex surrogates; they're all individuals who just happen to utilise ''sex'' to make money (and whilst making their money some of them are offering valuable experiences and changing peoples lives for the better, some of them are even changing the world from behind red-fringed windows). I'd feel degraded and exploited working in McDonald's. I can see why some people prefer to be a sex machine than a burger flipper. Flicking beans or flipping burgers? Know which one I'd prefer to get a cheque for.

Anyway, I've just been told off on another thread for posting ''off topic posts'', this is a book thread, and I'm talking about feminist terms and my disapproval of women's magazines.

 

[Orang Utan]

It's not an American word IME. I've heard it used by all sorts of people. It's just a general English word.

 

[TruXta]

It's not an American word IME. I've heard it used by all sorts of people. It's just a general English word.

Have you persevered with Wool?

 

[Orang Utan]

Have you persevered with Wool?

Not since we last spoke. I will do though

 

[TruXta]

Not since we last spoke. I will do though

If you like it I have the other two, would be happy to lend them to you.

 

[Orang Utan]

Ta! So many books, so little time....

 

[sojourner]

Can I just interject to say that unconducive IS in the OED. It's not an obscure word.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/spellcheck/all/?q=unconducive
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/spellcheck/british/?q=unconducive

 

[Orang Utan]

That's not the OED!
That's some online chancer of a dictionary. I'm surprised you don't think it's a word. It's used in officialese all the time eg 'behaviour unconducive to the school's code of conduct'

 

[sojourner]

I love words, and unwords. Was raised by Canadians so perhaps that's why I use American words sometimes (never American spelling though). Of course, the wrong word or misplaced/misused grammar can change a whole meaning of a sentence, but ''meaning is everything'' partly, I see it as: communication is expression, that's everything, so generally, if I get what a person is getting at/where they're coming from, I overlook little errors (unless the topic itself is about spelling/grammar, for instance), or unless I'm genuinely confused by those blunders. I've seen it on here; people ''debating'' and someone comes from out of nowhere with their superiority complex and points out a grammatical/spelling error, just to belittle that poster. There is no need for that. Tells me more about the belittler than the bad speller, far more. I know you'd not do that, just to be mean. Just makes me mad when I do see it.

I dunno, I hate these feminist terms. I hate labels. Feminism likes its labels. Yeah, I could partly, sometimes, describe myself as a ''loophole woman'' in the sense I generally don't get thrills out of baking cupcakes or going shopping, won't wear floral dresses, watch romcoms and read stupid hetronormative gossip magazines whilst getting my nails done. I don't actually belittle women who rather perfectly fit into the norms of womanhood; I just don't like to hang out with them. I don't want to pop out babies either. I want to work, party, travel and fuck. Shit loads.

About the women-in-sex-industry-being-abused statistic, well, I dunno, I'd be more interested in a statistic about the percentage of fast-food industry employees who were sexually abused as children/teenagers. Attaching sensationalist facts and figures to the sex industry is what they do, or to anything that society should despise/blame. As for ''sex workers'', it's such a huge spectrum, I'd love to know who this psychologist asked/studied, and how. From peep show girls to hardcore gangbanged pornstars to sex surrogates; they're all individuals who just happen to utilise sex to make money. I'd feel degraded and exploited working in McDonald's. I can see why people prefer to be a sex machine than a burger flipper. Flicking beans or flipping burgers? Know which one I'd prefer to get a cheque for.

Anyway, I've just been told off on another thread for posting ''off topic posts'', this is a book thread, and I'm talking about feminist terms and my disapproval of women's magazines.

This isn't really off-topic though is it cos it developed from a book

But - you use loads of labels yourself. All the trans and cis labels you were using a few posts back.

Fair point re attaching stats to the sex worker industry.

 

[Orang Utan]

I'm on a train now, so can't give a link, but the OED records the first usage in 1927 and the first usage of conducive in 1909 (IIRC)

 

[sojourner]

That's not the OED!
That's some online chancer of a dictionary. I'm surprised you don't think it's a word. It's used in officialese all the time eg 'behaviour unconducive to the school's code of conduct'

I stand corrected. Fucking wankers using the same name!

Apologies to Autochthonous1 then!

I've never heard it used, otherwise I wouldn't have questioned it would I? Think about it.

 

[Orang Utan]

This isn't really off-topic though is it cos it developed from a book

But - you use loads of labels yourself. All the trans and cis labels you were using a few posts back.

Fair point re attaching stats to the sex worker industry.

The best posts tend to be off topic anyway.

 

[Orang Utan]

I stand corrected. Fucking wankers using the same name!

Apologies to Autochthonous1 then!

I've never heard it used, otherwise I wouldn't have questioned it would I? Think about it.

I suspect you almost certainly have heard it, but just not taken it in. Our brains are weird. I remember being convinced that stupendous wasn't a word until shown otherwise.

 

[sojourner]

I suspect you almost certainly have heard it, but just not taken it in. Our brains are weird. I remember being convinced that stupendous wasn't a word until shown otherwise.

Nooo I take in allllll the words EVER! Just...not this one.

 

[DotCommunist]

Anyway anyway anyway - got a fab haul from the library yesterday! I am determined to get the most out of it

So, I got:

Nick Davies - Flat Earth News, which I'm gonna read first cos had to order it (oh, and with thanks to DotCommunist for mentioning it and drawing my attention to it)
Jeanette Winterson – The Daylight Gate
Will Self – Umbrella
Vonnegut - Cat's Cradle (for the fella, cos he fancied reading it again)

I was gonna get Division Street too by Helen Mort but thought I'd best be getting on with the others first!

the 'dark arts' stuff in FEN predates all the news international furore- astonishing how long it was an open secret for

and wintersone voted lib dem I liked her sci fi book Stone Gods though.

 

[sojourner]

the 'dark arts' stuff in FEN predates all the news international furore- astonishing how long it was an open secret for

and wintersone voted lib dem I liked her sci fi book Stone Gods though.

I've only just started it and already I've discovered stuff about Murdoch that I didn't know.

That's not the worst of it! She voted fucking Thatcher in first time around!! It was in her autobio, 'Why Be Happy When You Can Be Normal'. I nearly fucking threw up!! She did redeem herself somewhat later on by saying that she didn't realise at the time what it would mean to be a creative under her rule, all the funding being pulled and other consequences. Still though

 

[Autochthonous1]

Apologies to Autochthonous1 then!

No need to apologise at all. I could tell you genuinely didn't think it was a word, and you were not a cunt about it or anything.

This isn't really off-topic though is it cos it developed from a book

But - you use loads of labels yourself. All the trans and cis labels you were using a few posts back.

Fair point re attaching stats to the sex worker industry.

It is because of the binary that labels like ''cis'' and ''trans'' exist. If you have ''man'', ''women'' we then require those other labels. It is because of the binary we now have labels like ''genderqueer'', ''trans*'' and a zillion others. I wish we didn't have the binary. If I am attracted to non-binary identified people I am ''skoliosexual'', yet funny how ''straight'' doesn't get called ''a label'', right?

Anyway, the labels I was on about mostly, were the terms, those feminist terms like ''ecofeminism'', ''lipstick feminism'', ''loophole women'' ''bimbo feminism'', ''sex-positive'' and so on...

 

[Autochthonous1]

I'm not on FB but if you are you should join that wordporn site sojourner?
https://www.facebook.com/thispageisaboutwords
One of my favourites atm:

 

[DotCommunist]

I've only just started it and already I've discovered stuff about Murdoch that I didn't know.

That's not the worst of it! She voted fucking Thatcher in first time around!! It was in her autobio, 'Why Be Happy When You Can Be Normal'. I nearly fucking threw up!! She did redeem herself somewhat later on by saying that she didn't realise at the time what it would mean to be a creative under her rule, all the funding being pulled and other consequences. Still though

bejesus, I admire the lady's mad skillz with a quill but thats some epic political naivety

 

[inva]

the 'dark arts' stuff in FEN predates all the news international furore- astonishing how long it was an open secret for

and wintersone voted lib dem I liked her sci fi book Stone Gods though.

I read Stone Gods not that long ago and didn't much like it. doesn't surprise me that she voted lib dem - Stone Gods had a distinct current of liberal/green misanthropy from what I remember and an organic farmer hero.

I looked at her wiki page just now - Oxford uni, OBE, and she turned a terrace house into an organic food shop