Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i don't know. you'd be better off asking people in knobbing and sobbing
We are going to kill you, not really, Yes we are, No we're not .. (Troy Davis)
- Thread starter Ponyutd
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Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
Er, what I said is that Boston is one of the more racist places that I have visited. That's true. Obviously that's in my opinion; I assume any the 1000s of non-American readers are able to understand that this was my experience of the place, rather than the official guide book blurb. (e2a: scratch that as a comparator, given general guide book inaccuracy on this kind of thing.)
I'm glad that you can acknowledge that as a white person (or rather, someone to whom the racism isn't directed, that being the more salient factor than the descriptor 'white'), you won't necessarily have been in a position to notice the racism that goes on there. It wasn't of the shouty n-word type I've experienced in other places in the US, and if you google Boston and racism together, you'll find that it's not just me that thinks so.
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
My impression was that there was the racism in the 70's, and that it had gotten better. Also that there has always been tension between the working class Irish* population of South Boston and blacks in those neighborhoods or surrounding ones.
It is funny though, this area. If there is any truth to it being more racist than other places, it's a contradiction in terms.
*(honestly, I'm not insinuating anything by that...Boston has a huge Irish pop. and they have a long history of being discriminated against too)
It is funny though, this area. If there is any truth to it being more racist than other places, it's a contradiction in terms.
*(honestly, I'm not insinuating anything by that...Boston has a huge Irish pop. and they have a long history of being discriminated against too)
Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
I don't think racism is logical, Miss Caphat 
Nor limited to the Irish there, I should say.
I didn't go to South Boston. Perhaps I should have, but I was a bit afraid having been warned by a few people (friends) not to go there, even in daylight, on my own, as I wouldn't be safe. That might have been a 'don't got to Brixton or Camden' type warning (as in, it's a warning by people who don't live there but believe the hype about its unusual danger despite evidence to the contrary) but my experience of the rest of the town didn't make me that keen to be 'brave'. TBF I didn't feel -in danger- elsewhere in the town, but there was a lot of outright hostility, snubbing, assumption and selective meanness that I haven't found in other places.
Nor limited to the Irish there, I should say.I didn't go to South Boston. Perhaps I should have, but I was a bit afraid having been warned by a few people (friends) not to go there, even in daylight, on my own, as I wouldn't be safe. That might have been a 'don't got to Brixton or Camden' type warning (as in, it's a warning by people who don't live there but believe the hype about its unusual danger despite evidence to the contrary) but my experience of the rest of the town didn't make me that keen to be 'brave'. TBF I didn't feel -in danger- elsewhere in the town, but there was a lot of outright hostility, snubbing, assumption and selective meanness that I haven't found in other places.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Britain is a small island, cars have small engines, we permit drivers to do 70mph on motorways.
Germany is a slightly bigger country with slightly bigger engined cars and they permit drivers to drive limit free on their Autobahns. Go as fast as you want.
America is a massive country, with large distances between places, cars have massive engines yet the speed limit on freeways was 55mph! ridiculous.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
very few things people do are logical. the obsession with rational and logical thought ignores the irrationality apparent at the heart of much human behaviour.
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
but why is this ridiculous? driving is a privilege, not a right. driving at fast speed kills people. And for the record, most people here drive 70 mph here too, and in most places the speed limit is 65 on the highway/freeway.
Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
innit.
e2a. Innit? I'm not at all sure there's an obsession with rational thought! But my (emotional
) response was based on my current despair that we can think our way out of anything.
fogbat
The Talibum
.
Question: how much of the porn watched in the UK is made in the US?
Actually, I believe the UK is one of the few countries which consumes more amateur porn than anything else. Not sure what that says about us as a country, but it means that cockhungry estate agents from Swindon have a rosy future.
Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
fogbat
The Talibum
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
For completely irrational reasons, that had me going 'yay Britain!'. There's something very endearing about the idea of us all getting out the super 8 to make each other rubbish porn movies.
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
I don't think racism is logical, Miss Caphat
I didn't go to South Boston. Perhaps I should have, but I was a bit afraid having been warned by a few people (friends) not to go there, even in daylight, on my own, as I wouldn't be safe. That might have been a 'don't got to Brixton or Camden' type warning (as in, it's a warning by people who don't live there but believe the hype about its unusual danger despite evidence to the contrary) but my experience of the rest of the town didn't make me that keen to be 'brave'. TBF I didn't feel -in danger- elsewhere in the town, but there was a lot of outright hostility, snubbing, assumption and selective meanness that I haven't found in other places.
Not many people do go to South Boston unless they're from there. I've never been, and remember getting the general idea that it's a place to be avoided altogether, even for white people.
Of course there are black neighborhoods that have a similar reputation, such as Roxbury, and there are those which are considered much friendlier.
and yeah, I certainly do agree with your last sentence about the hostility and snubbing. Boston and many of its suburbs have more than their share of "townies" (I guess the equivalent would be "good old boys" down south) that will be downright rude and unwelcoming to anyone different. That exists in my town too. Though around here it's not about skin color, but whether or not you grew up here and if they perceive you as a "yuppie".
I'm starting to get more of an idea of what you meant now.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
'i don't think racism is logical' suggests to me that you place it (and other 'illogical' thought-schemes) on a lower plane than rational or logical thought. the obsession to which i referred isn't peculiar to you, but is a more general thing, where people hold their hands up in horror and belittle irrational thought without in fact giving the matter much thought. i hope i'm not suggesting racists are right: but you're always going to fail to understand them if you look for the logic in their ideas.innit.
e2a. Innit? I'm not at all sure there's an obsession with rational thought! But my (emotional
we can think our way out of anything, but transforming those thoughts and plans into concrete reality - ay, there's the rub.
fogbat
The Talibum
It's quite encouraging that we're more likely to be wanking to someone's middle-aged swinger mum rather than a silicone-filled starlet.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it's not just you, it's several other posters too who should all hang their heads in shame.I wish I'd chosen a less fucking horrific thread to discuss amateur porn, actually. Sorry, all
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
amateur porn from where, though? the UK? US? Europe?
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
true. sorry.
Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
I didn't meet any 'good old boys' or 'equivalent' in Boston. I guess I had a worse time there personally because the shit stuff came from 'liberals' and I didn't expect it. I wasn't there long enough to discover much that didn't apply to me (i.e. I'm sure there was more!), but what I did discover was definitely based on skin colour (with some added foreign woman exploring on her own suspicion).
Anyway...
If people haven't already come across this, you can send a message to Troy Davis' family here.
Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
Ah, ok. Not what I meant. I was responding to the idea that there should be a contradiction in people, that one might expect would understand and reject racism based on their own experience, being racist themselves. Racism isn't logical so you can't reliably infer where it'll show itself.
In other words, it wasn't a judgement on 'illogical' thought. I can't deny that I do make that kind of judgement about some things - reiki, for example - but that's more my contempt at the idea (not about individuals) of trying to couch flimflam in scientific terms, rather than not understanding/empathising with a need to find hope or belonging or answers or something that makes life seem less stark.
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
I never said the townies weren't liberals (that's the odd part, most of them are...well, they are mostly Democrats anyway), or that they were not racist.
I think you're taking things I say the wrong way. I don't live in Boston anymore. When I said "here" I meant where I live now.and sorry this has gotten so off track of the op but I think the main point of this spin-off discussion is definitely worth having. The original question was why do Brits go against their moral standards to visit the US. maybe we can move it to another thread?
weltweit
Well-Known Member
When I first visited America there was a blanket 55mph limit. Now that has been repealed in many states.
Driving is not a privilege, it is a necessity.
Driving fast does not kill people - it is hitting solid objects and stopping quickly that kills.
Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
Start itI never said the townies weren't liberals (that's the odd part, most of them are...well, they are mostly Democrats anyway), or that they were not racist.
and sorry this has gotten so off track of the op but I think the main point of this spin-off discussion is definitely worth having. The original question was why do Brits go against their moral standards to visit the US. maybe we can move it to another thread?
(Though I probably won't see it till tomorrow as I'm in need of bed.) In any case, I don't have your idea of what you mean by 'townies', so I may well have misunderstood you. I also didn't think I was having a go at you (and am not sure whether you thought I was ).
gosub
~#
Technically it's lack of oxygen to the brain that kills
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
nope. it's a privilege. Just because not having use of a car makes life more difficult (which is one of the things I would change about the US) does not mean it's ok to drive in any unsafe way (speeding, drinking, distracted). They changed the 55mph speed limit because it was unenforceable, not because it doesn't make sense, safety-wise.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Was that in Florida? I found the speed limits there strange too. Huge long highways with no pedestrians or intersections and such a low speed limit. But in LA the speed limit was higher. It does vary a hell of a lot from state to state.
Washington DC was, to my surprise, the most obviously non-white place I visited (as in, from just looking at the faces of the people working there - not an infallible guide, obviously).
I'd kinda expected the US to be a lot less white than it actually turned out to be; in all those long queues at tourist attractions, I tend to look a a lot at the people around me because in the queues there's little else to look at. I look at their hair, their clothes, their shoes; I even make up stories about them if I'm really bored. So I noticed the lack of black people. Not the tourists, but the workers. In the thirty of so workers at the Empire state building, for example, all but one of them appeared to be white. It was only in DC that I saw quite a few African-American people working the counters at hotels or tourist attractions. Until then, I could have visited the US and thought it was 99.99% white.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
You can treat it as a privilege if you like - for me it just is a necessity.
If I did not drive I could not live where I live and work where I work.
Who mentioned driving in anything other than a responsible way?
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