Watson demands...

[Proper Tidy]

Because it's the democratic thing to do. Give people the final say on any deal alongside the option of remaining. Then go with that outcome.

I wouldn't have a no deal as an option though.

...

 

[Benjy1992]

...

Gov deal vs remain.

I never said anything about having no deal as an option.

 

[Teaboy]

Doesn't Watson just demand the same thing every week though? Kinda boring but if it makes him happy.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Doesn't Watson just demand the same thing every week though? Kinda boring but if it makes him happy.

five out of eight related stories - and the others could also be about him

 

[Proper Tidy]

Gov deal vs remain.

I never said anything about having no deal as an option.

But I thought this was about pure wholesome democracy rather than just getting your preferred outcome...

Not that I'm arsed about people wanting their preferred outcome, but just be honest about it mate

 

[treelover]

There's nothing clear about a choice of in or out. The vagueness of the question left it open to interpretation and doesn't take into account that a trade deal has to be secured. Norway, Turkey and Switzerland are all outside of the EU but have differing trade arrangements with them. It's not as simple as cut all ties and have done, with all the economic consequences that will bring. That wasn't explained.

Those on the left supporting Brexit need to ask themselves whether their vision of a socialist state is more or less likely. With avid right wing Tories running the show, there's only one answer to that, and that's less likely as they will have a free reign to rip up our regulations and protections that ensure workers and environmental rights and stop our NHS from being privatised to name a few.

Not being funny, but this post and your other main one are basically word for word what gets posted on Guardian CIF.

 

[Supine]

Not being funny, but this post and your other main one are basically word for word what gets posted on Guardian CIF.

Does that make it any less valid an opinion?

 

[Proper Tidy]

Yes

 

[friedaweed]

He was quite demanding with his type 2 diabetes. I was quite impressed with him for that

 

[Benjy1992]

Not being funny, but this post and your other main one are basically word for word what gets posted on Guardian CIF.

What's wrong with that?

The Guardian is a valid mouthpiece for liberal and left wing views. With the exception of the ultra left wing Morning Star and maybe the Mirror, what other national papers are as left wing as the Guardian?

 

[Benjy1992]

Yes

Could always be the DM comment section.

 

[Proper Tidy]

what other national papers are as left wing as the Guardian?

 

[Proper Tidy]

Leftwing is a workfare company putting the rainbow flag on its logo

 

[Benjy1992]

The Lib Dems were a definite left wing party back then. Certainly more left wing than a Blairite Brownite Labour Party that had had their day.

I'd still class them as centre left now.

Over the years the guardian has overwhelmingly backed Labour including with corbyn as leader in 2017.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Fuck off lol

 

[Benjy1992]

Fuck off lol

?

 

[Flavour]

might be timely to drop this one again:
Media Lens :: View topic - Murray McDonald:The hidden history of the Guardian newspaper

The Guardian is and always has been an anti-working class paper.

 

[MikeMcc]

Watson is right though. Labour stands to lose a lot more votes from remain voters than they do from leaves ones. The local and Euro elections shows as much. It's high time Corbyn stopped his ambiguous, keep everyone happy approach and backed a second referendum.

Doesn't matter on numbers. it depends on seats. A decision to swing to Remain will trash seats from Derby northwards, traditional Labour heartlands. A Tory / Brexit Party tactical coalition would smash Labour and the libDems. Watson is mired in an illusion that his faction is misunterstood but if it illluminates the public perception all will be well. Sorry, but that fantasy is just not going to happen.

 

[Old Spark]

I think Watson knew the Corbynistas could give him a serious challenge so that explains his recent hyper activity after years of saying little.

He started as a blairite became a brownite then became len and murphys best pal to get deputy then fell out with them and now is fighting to stay in the game.

Does he believe in anything -only kulture,techno and musick,never heard him say anything much before now about the great issues of the day.

 

[Steel Icarus]

The Lib Dems were a definite left wing party back then. Certainly more left wing than a Blairite Brownite Labour Party that had had their day.

I'd still class them as centre left now.

Over the years the guardian has overwhelmingly backed Labour including with corbyn as leader in 2017.

This is the kind of nonsense only right wing berks come out with.

 

[Riklet]

Or Tom Watson.

o wait.

 

[andysays]

Looks like McDonnell is coming out in favour of a shift to Remain

 

[Streathamite]

Seymour in direct mood on this, with a link to what I think is what Watson actually said, and a great last line.

Labour, Brexit and the culture war | Richard Seymour on Patreon

Excellent article, that

 

[Streathamite]

What's wrong with that?

The Guardian is a valid mouthpiece for liberal and left wing views

Because there is nothing even remotely left about smug liberal centrists

 

[Streathamite]

The Lib Dems were a definite left wing party back then. Certainly more left wing than a Blairite Brownite Labour Party that had had their day.

I'd still class them as centre left now.

Over the years the guardian has overwhelmingly backed Labour including with corbyn as leader in 2017.

Absolutely wrong, on both counts

 

[redsquirrel]

Over the years the guardian has overwhelmingly backed Labour including with corbyn as leader in 2017.

Not true, in there own evidence

And in 2017 they backed tactical voting for any anti-Tory party

. Labour stands to lose a lot more votes from remain voters than they do from leaves ones. The local and Euro elections shows as much.

Do you have any evidence that Labour lost more votes from "remain voters" in the local elections? But regardless of where they lost votes, in general, the areas where they lost significant numbers of seats were strong Leave voting areas where voters switched from Labour to eurosceptic independents (e.g. Bolsover, Ashfield). If we are talking about the issue in electoral terms then it's not votes but seats that are important and the next GE, like every previous GE since 1945, will be decided by the results in Lab/Con marginals, seats that generally lean leave. So which seats do you believe the LP pick up if they go hardcore remain?

Of course the above doesn't take into account the political consequences of going full remain, the rejection of a social coalition for a progressive one, and what that does to the LP.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Gov deal vs remain.

I never said anything about having no deal as an option.

Why wouldn’t you have ‘no deal’ as an option? Obviously there is the fact that given a run off between remain, the May deal and no deal the latter would win but that can’t be your reason.

 

[mauvais]

From 1992:



"Change has become unavoidable". Classic Guardian.

The whole miserable feast here: The Guardian’s leader line on every general election since 1918

 

[Smokeandsteam]

This is an excellent reposte to Watson, Adonis, McDonnell and Mason (and Benjy):

Labour can’t afford to lose its working-class heartlands by backing remain | Jon Cruddas

Amazing to hear Cruddas talking about the working class, Marx and agency

 

[campanula]

Amazing to hear Cruddas talking about the working class, Marx and agency

innit. retro-labour