Wahaca make planning applications for the old Brady's /Railway Tavern pub on Atlantic Road, Brixton

[Manter]

And while I'm at it, on the Soup Kitchen book...it was published in 2005 when soup kitchens had all but died out. It was a harmless phrase with nothing to most people but historical interest... There were a few 'soup kitchens'- mostly food trucks, referred to as soup-runs usually- ministering to the homeless, but they were seriously considering banning them as not helping address the problems of that group (it was briefly a government policy proposal in 2007, and the proposal was supported by many of the major charities. Shelter still thought they had a place but wrote a whole policy paper on what they were not and should not be. Which included common, regular, part of the established social benefit framework ...)

Now that our country is going down the toilet, soup kitchens (and food bank, something I had only heard of in socially brutal America) have become both common and loaded terms. It's a bit harsh to blame her for being one of the editors of a book with that title, published 8 years ago before we had any idea soup kitchens would become part of our reality again.

 

[Manter]

Odd how chains which take over these spots are almost universally owned and run by those with inherited privilege though isn't it. Almost like there was some basic economic imbalance in society.

Which is *precisely* my point- make that point, don't sneer at her name, or the village her parents live in.

E2a- tbf it wasn't you doing the sneering up thread

 

[Brixton Hatter]

who said what about her name, where was that?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Which is *precisely* my point- make that point, don't sneer at her name, or the village her parents live in.

E2a- tbf it wasn't you doing the sneering up thread

Her name and parents' location (and various other factors) are cultural signifiers, even if they're not directly connected. It's not exactly random.

eta: I don't see any sneering at her parents' location (maybe I missed that) but being privately educated is a bit of a point as well.

 

[leanderman]

And while I'm at it, on the Soup Kitchen book...it was published in 2005 when soup kitchens had all but died out. It was a harmless phrase with nothing to most people but historical interest... There were a few 'soup kitchens'- mostly food trucks, referred to as soup-runs usually- ministering to the homeless, but they were seriously considering banning them as not helping address the problems of that group (it was briefly a government policy proposal in 2007, and the proposal was supported by many of the major charities. Shelter still thought they had a place but wrote a whole policy paper on what they were not and should not be. Which included common, regular, part of the established social benefit framework ...)

Now that our country is going down the toilet, soup kitchens (and food bank, something I had only heard of in socially brutal America) have become both common and loaded terms. It's a bit harsh to blame her for being one of the editors of a book with that title, published 8 years ago before we had any idea soup kitchens would become part of our reality again.

I can't help keep noticing that public life is increasingly being dominated by people from the top schools.

As well as the professions this is seen in music, food, the England cricket team even.

And I'm pretty sure that research by the Sutton Trust backs up my suspicions.

 

[Manter]

There will always be a need for community space - we don't need to invent that need, or prove it. People will always need to get together. Opportunities (like Bradys) can be the catalyst to generate new uses and get more people involved.

You do need to 'prove it' to get investment. And the council handing a building over is investment.

Look, I'm not saying they acted well (they never do) or that the space isn't needed as a community space, just that 'there will always be a need' isn't an argument with any force- all you need is someone to go 'no there isn't' and you are at an impasse.

 

[leanderman]

Which is *precisely* my point- make that point, don't sneer at her name, or the village her parents live in.

E2a- tbf it wasn't you doing the sneering up thread

I really don't think I was sneering.

 

[Manter]

I can't help keep noticing that public life is increasingly being dominated by people from the top schools.

As well as the professions this is seen in music, food, the England cricket team even.

And I'm pretty sure that research by the Sutton Trust backs up my suspicions.

I don't dispute any of that. As I have said again and again, make that point, don't point at an individual and say 'and her dad had a stupid name too'

 

[Manter]

I really don't think I was sneering.

I can't see the post numbers in the new version of the forum, but there was an exchange between you and VP that started at 9.56, which picked at her name, her dad's name and the village she came from. I think it had a very sneering tone. And it takes away from the real point, which is the one Fridgemagnet and then you made much more constructively and clearly- that there is a take over of public life by a cartel who went to school and university together and have access to investment etc which is allowing them to take over public life. That's the real issue

 

[Brixton Hatter]

You do need to 'prove it' to get investment. And the council handing a building over is investment.

Look, I'm not saying they acted well (they never do) or that the space isn't needed as a community space, just that 'there will always be a need' isn't an argument with any force- all you need is someone to go 'no there isn't' and you are at an impasse.

Yeah I think you're mostly right about having to play the game to get investment. But the council wouldn't be 'handing the building over' - it would be (in an ideal world) keeping the building in public ownership and for public use, indefinitely, creating social, cultural and communal benefits. Truly "cooperative"! (Which is why it won't happen.)

 

[Manter]

Her name and parents' location (and various other factors) are cultural signifiers, even if they're not directly connected. It's not exactly random.

eta: I don't see any sneering at her parents' location (maybe I missed that) but being privately educated is a bit of a point as well.

The issue imo is when a genuine concern- as evidenced by the Sutton trust report Leanderman referenced- is reduced to lazy stereotypes. The country and villages are not the preserve of the rich, names (and even silly posh sounding names) don't always mean you are either silly or posh, even public school educations hide a myriad of financial situations and experiences (though less so than in the past)- if we reduce everything to us v them, we are shoring up the ridiculous 'class' differences that are doing such damage to the country.

I know I am now going to get beaten up for mentioning class without the correct references to modern socialist thinking, and tbh I sort of wish I hadn't started this (I am sure she can fight her own battles) but I wish we could all address people as people rather than as archetypes*

*ok, naive I know and it may be too late for the uk to move beyond our strange class based system, but a girl can dream

 

[Santino]

It's not "authentic" for anyone, regardless of how Wahaca sell themselves.

God help those eating inauthentic food. Scum. Scum, pure and simple.

 

[colacubes]

.

 

[leanderman]

I can't see the post numbers in the new version of the forum, but there was an exchange between you and VP that started at 9.56, which picked at her name, her dad's name and the village she came from. I think it had a very sneering tone. And it takes away from the real point, which is the one Fridgemagnet and then you made much more constructively and clearly- that there is a take over of public life by a cartel who went to school and university together and have access to investment etc which is allowing them to take over public life. That's the real issue

I was not sneering.

 

[Manter]

I was not sneering.

Ok... Really don't want to fight, that's how it read to me. I take it back

 

[leanderman]

Ok... Really don't want to fight, that's how it read to me. I take it back

You don't have to take anything back. I have been accused of much worse here!

I think Thomasina is a silly name. It was an aside, no more.

And the village name (Guiting Power) struck me as very unusual.

I didn't mean them to obscure my main point about privilege.

 

[equationgirl]

Oh, how I expect she and her editor laughed when they came up with that title!

It was a book raising money for charity, at a time when soup kitchens were a lot more scarce than they have become in recent years.

 

[Gramsci]

[

I did not suggest that people didn't put lots of effort in. But as far as I am aware all these plans died with that building being sold. I can appreciate that it would have been a great (if expensive to maintain) location but why was it the only spot?

It was designated for some kind of community use in the Brixton Masterplan that was agreed by Council Cabinet.

It is pointless going to consultation meetings to help the Council make a Masterplan for Brixton and then seeing the Council ditch them.

 

[Gramsci]

I dunno that any were - I'm assuming that such existed/still exists, and that a community organisation could have shifted its focus onto acquiring a different building after it became clear that Brady's was a no-go. I'm really not trying to have a go at anyone, merely curious, like Rushy, why it seemed to be an all or nothing effort.

It was not about one particular community organisation pushing this use of Bradys.

The original Brixton Masterplan ( agreed by Cabinet but not statutory planning guidelines) says that officers should:

Brady’s community facility
Define a delivery methodology for Brady’s building to
include community/cultural/leisure use and remodelled
rear addition to provide active frontage and overlook to
new public space.

After all the consultation on the Brixton Masterplan it was flogged off.

 

[Rushy]

And while I'm at it, on the Soup Kitchen book...it was published in 2005 when soup kitchens had all but died out. It was a harmless phrase with nothing to most people but historical interest... There were a few 'soup kitchens'- mostly food trucks, referred to as soup-runs usually- ministering to the homeless, but they were seriously considering banning them as not helping address the problems of that group (it was briefly a government policy proposal in 2007, and the proposal was supported by many of the major charities. Shelter still thought they had a place but wrote a whole policy paper on what they were not and should not be. Which included common, regular, part of the established social benefit framework ...)

Now that our country is going down the toilet, soup kitchens (and food bank, something I had only heard of in socially brutal America) have become both common and loaded terms. It's a bit harsh to blame her for being one of the editors of a book with that title, published 8 years ago before we had any idea soup kitchens would become part of our reality again.

IIRC Terrance Conran's first restaurant was called Soup Kitchen in the 60s. It sold fresh made soup and bread.

 

[Rushy]

From the Telegraph announcements (10-08-2009): The engagement is announced between Mark, son of Mr and Mrs Anthony Williams, of Antigua, and Thomasina, daughter of Mr and Mrs Probyn Miers, of Guiting Power, Gloucestershire.

Top be honest you could delve into the history of some local HC members and find similar backgrounds.

 

[shakespearegirl]

Without detracting from the very valid 'co-operative bollocks Lambeth' argument, I do find the whole name and background sneering thing a bit wearing. On paper I grew up in one of Melbourne's wealthiest suburbs and my siblings all have ridiculously posh names, but the reality was the absolute opposite of a life of wealth and luxury. You can't always judge a book by its cover.

 

[pissflaps]

welcome to U75, posh until proven otherwise.

 

[Dan U]

They sell themselves as "Mexican market eating". Seems plain to me they're making a claim to authenticity in that statement.

if an African chef cooks my 'traditional British Roast Dinner' does that not make it traditional?

having walked past a few Wahacas, i'm not sure they are claiming to be that authentic.

 

[Rushy]

if an African chef cooks my 'traditional British Roast Dinner' does that not make it traditional?

having walked past a few Wahacas, i'm not sure they are claiming to be that authentic.

I haven't been to Central America since summer '92 but back then authentic would have involved at least one period of 24hrs being glued to the throne and shitting in litres.


*Sorry if it's a bit early for that*

 

[pissflaps]

i got that after a visit to chiquitos in leicester square as all fresh-off-the-boaters do. well authentic then.

 

[Onket]

"If we can't have it no-one can" says U75.

 

[pissflaps]

"If we don't want it no-one can" says U75.

fixed, a bit.

 

[Onket]

This thread appears to be about a proposed 'community space' a couple of hundred yards away-

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...s-community-space-and-feel-good-vibes.315609/

 

[TruXta]

It was not about one particular community organisation pushing this use of Bradys.

The original Brixton Masterplan ( agreed by Cabinet but not statutory planning guidelines) says that officers should:




After all the consultation on the Brixton Masterplan it was flogged off.

Thanks.