aqua
made of cheese and gin
he had a very good explanation how and why it shouldn't happen so much on them but I can't remember what it was
Virgin pendolino trains - awful things
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existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Probably something about visual references, and the conflict between what the eyes are seeing and the movement being experienced?
editor
hiraethified
Thank fuck not everyone goes along with your defeatist "we should just put up with what we're given" attitude.
If enough customers complain, things can change.
editor
hiraethified
Yeah, you're right. I should never complain or kick up a fuss but should just quietly put with whatever I'm given because they clearly know best.
as for me, the next time I'm making a journey where there's a practical alternative, I'll taker it. Perhaps others will read things like this and do the same.
Not surprised to read that, editor. I had a grumble at Vermin years ago about the Voyagers, which were (and are) totally unsuitable for long-distance journeys. I complained about how little legroom there was, and how the seats were too close together, too upright, too narrow and too hard. The reply I got stated baldly, and disingenuously, that the seats were designed to be comfortable for - IIRC - 95% of travellers, which begs the question of what they thought their average customer was like. I mean, I'm fairly slim and not particularly tall, so God help anyone over 6' or a bit on the portly side.
Most of the rolling stock introduced on intercity routes in the last ten years or so has been ill-designed, and the refurbishment of most older carriages has done them no favours either.
Most of the rolling stock introduced on intercity routes in the last ten years or so has been ill-designed, and the refurbishment of most older carriages has done them no favours either.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
"If we filled the carriages with four-seat tables, they'd line up with the windows and it would be much nicer, but we wouldn't fit as many people in so they'd be overcrowded." would be the honest answer.
The voyagers are a different matter - they could easily be made longer.
The voyagers are a different matter - they could easily be made longer.
editor
hiraethified
Please don't post up random stuff and try and attribute it to me. Thanks.
Um what? I asked a direct question, you evaded it.
editor
hiraethified
I would have thought it was rather obvious. I don't want them to offer seats with no windows, for starters, or if they do, offer a discount. Or at least make it clear when buying the ticket.
There's not actually a lot wrong with the basic design IMO. The class 222 variant is fine on East Midlands Trains, and I liked them when Hull Trains had them as well. They're fine for middle-distance journeys like London-Sheffield and London-Hull. However, they're differently fitted out inside from the Virgin/Cross-Country ones - larger and better-spaced seats, for a start.
Won't happen on Cross-Country, though - the routes are too busy and they won't sacrifice the seats. Best thing you can do there is be really sad, find their diagrams online and make sure you travel when it's an HST rather than a shitty Voyager!
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
editor
hiraethified
I don't think so, but thanks for the lovely screen grab anyway.
neonwilderness
What would Badgers do?
Won't happen on Cross-Country, though - the routes are too busy and they won't sacrifice the seats. Best thing you can do there is be really sad, find their diagrams online and make sure you travel when it's an HST rather than a shitty Voyager!
I remember when they first introduced the Voyagers and pretty much every train was wedged. At least things are slightly better now, although that was at the expense of cutting back the number of routes to give more trains on the core bits.
WTF are you complaining about? It is clearly stated which seats have a limited view on Virgin's seating plans:http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/assets/pdf/global/seating-plan.pdf
And why should you get a discount? You're not paying for a view, or a seat, you're paying to be taken from A to B.
editor
hiraethified
Oh yes, I bet everyone reads that when they're booking a train.
Strange then that their adverts should promote the view from the window as a major part of their appeal
The information is there, if you can't be bothered to look at it then whose fault is that? It's not Virgin's that's for sure.
If you sit at a window you do get a view. Your train ticket is for being taken from A to B, nothing more.
editor
hiraethified
Most trains do have windows for every seat and you can't always reserve seats for every journey.
Still, if you're happy sitting being stuck in a corner looking at beige plastic for two hours, that's good for you. As for me, I'll kick up a fuss and I really aren't bothered what you think about that.
kenny g
Sheeple Awake!
If you "really aren't bothered what you think about that" why have you posted your thought on a bulletin board?
editor
hiraethified
I'm not bothered what one particularly tedioius poster with a bee in his bonnet thinks. HTH.
If anyone's tedious, and has got a bee in his bonnet, it's you. The information you claim to require is freely available to anyone who wants it, yet you feel compelled to pontifcate on here about it, as if it doesn't exist. TBH, knowing you, I'm surprised you didn't blame Apple.
Old trains were better 
Sounded awesome too
Sounded awesome too
tangerinedream
Density of Sound
See, I don't understand what is wrong with the design of locomotive + carraiges and I don't mean just from a nostalgic point of view. It feels like we've been sold a big fib about 'improving standards' when you've got these inflexible and cramped trains that get to london about 10 minutes quicker than this sort of train I remember from 20 years ago.
It seems as a group, rail travellers have been fed a need to 'upgrade' (which I don't dispute) but perhaps a gradual development of newer locomotives and carriages which would be designed to be integrated with older stock would have been far more cost effective than a wholesale new fleet of trains. Railfares have rocketed and almost everytime I get a train anywhere other than to the sticks, it's overcrowded, you can't take your bike and a pushchair is nightmare. The voyagers are an example - lots of services clearly need extra space that adding a couple of carriages would give but the thousands of older carriages that have been scrapped or sold can't be used because the design is so specific. Still, I can get to london 8 minutes earlier for god knows how much more and smell shit all the way, standing up next to a pile of luggage that is going to pin me to floor if it collapses, while a harassed woman has to apologise every time someone wants to go to the toilet because she can't find anywhere to fold her pushchair up and her toddler keeps running off. And it's too hot because it's a sealed uni which means the smell of shit just wafts arround, amplifying and clinging to the sheen of sweat. It's like being stuck in a festival toilet on a hot day.
It seems as a group, rail travellers have been fed a need to 'upgrade' (which I don't dispute) but perhaps a gradual development of newer locomotives and carriages which would be designed to be integrated with older stock would have been far more cost effective than a wholesale new fleet of trains. Railfares have rocketed and almost everytime I get a train anywhere other than to the sticks, it's overcrowded, you can't take your bike and a pushchair is nightmare. The voyagers are an example - lots of services clearly need extra space that adding a couple of carriages would give but the thousands of older carriages that have been scrapped or sold can't be used because the design is so specific. Still, I can get to london 8 minutes earlier for god knows how much more and smell shit all the way, standing up next to a pile of luggage that is going to pin me to floor if it collapses, while a harassed woman has to apologise every time someone wants to go to the toilet because she can't find anywhere to fold her pushchair up and her toddler keeps running off. And it's too hot because it's a sealed uni which means the smell of shit just wafts arround, amplifying and clinging to the sheen of sweat. It's like being stuck in a festival toilet on a hot day.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Old trains were better
Sounded awesome too
None of that eastern filth please.
As for the Voyagers - they are awful, and Virgin operate them badly. Four hours on the WSMR was infinately preferable to two hours on one of those horrors.
editor
hiraethified
Apple? Blimey, you really are truly desperate for a fight. LOL.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Indeed. The Mark 4 is the best coach in mainline service anywhere on the railway today - it seats a lot of people in good comfort - and they are all more than twenty years old now. Everything in coaching stock terms that has happened since has been a let-down, with the possible exception of the class 378s (which are at least interesting to ride on).
tangerinedream
Density of Sound
I've had a brief look at google to see if I can find a comparison in train times between Glasgow and london in 1990s and now. I can't. Anyone know how much quicker the journey actually is? I know when you go to Glasgow from Lancaster you can get a transpennine express and it's not that much slower and that doesn't tilt or have streamlined pseudo bullet train styling.
