Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Sorry I meant in the vertical dimension, i.e. the gap between the rack and the ceiling.
Virgin pendolino trains - awful things
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Sorry I meant in the vertical dimension, i.e. the gap between the rack and the ceiling.
But we can't have the for practical reasons, so talking about them is pointless.
Um, it's not what the TOC's "want", it's what the passengers want. Most passengers want the maximum number of seats so they can sit down. You can't have your cake and eat it. Given the limited space the railways have to play with you have to choose between more space for luggage or more space for seats, and I'm quite sure most people would vote for seats.
Oh the irony. One minute you complain about high prices (even though Advances can be had exceptionally cheaply) and the next you're claiming to be a scummy fare dodger. If no one pays the proper fare where do you think the money going to come from to pay for the up-keep and improvements of the railway? Not only that but we who pay are subsiding your free ride. I find great pleasure in seeing people like you thrown off the train. In fact since you are a scummy fare dodger your whole argument becomes null and void.
What would you call them then? I like to call them "scum".
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
_angel_
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I want luggage racks back please. The virgin trains are horrendous. These are cross country services, not a local ones. Of course people are going to have to take luggage.
Miss-Shelf
I'll meet you further on up the road
I like to call them people who can't afford the fare and still have a need to travel
If they can't afford it (which I doubt) they shouldn't be on the train. Trains companies aren't running a charity service. Every single passenger who's paid the correct price is being penalised when one of these people gets away with it. They think its funny running up and down the train trying to avoid the guard. Like I said, scum.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Why did this problem get worse after privatisation then?
First class passengers get lots more space per person and the proportion of the train given over to first class has increased at the expense of standard class, in order to facilitate discriminatory pricing, clearly against the interests of most passengers.
Evidently it's possible to add more carriages, Virgin recently added an extra two on the west coast line.
It's also very likely possible to increase the number of trains on a great many routes, in order to reduce the load on any individual train.
Increased investment in track and stations would improve the situation further.
However, that's what you'd do if you were running the service in the interests of the public, rather than those of investors.
Miss-Shelf
I'll meet you further on up the road
and there's the crux of it : travel isn't a luxury commodity - people have a need to get around
Probably only because privatisation coincided with the introduction of a load of new trains.
FC pax get more space because that's one of the things one pays extra for, and I'm not convinced the latter is true.
Yeah, sometimes, but sometimes not without a lot of work.
Sometimes, but sometimes there just isn't the spare capacity in the network.
Which costs money, and then you get people moaning a)about fare prices and b)the amount of government subsidy. And there has been investment, a ton of it recently.
I "need" a Ferrari. Should I go and steel one? Bottom line is, if you use a service you should pay for it.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
I don't think you can produce a convincing argument that you need a Ferrari, but I do think that there are plenty of good arguments in favour of affordable and user-friendly public transport based on the benefits that it provides to society as a whole.
And why would TOCs care for themselves whether there are more seats but less luggage space, or more luggage space but fewer seats? They sell the same amount of tickets either way because a ticket does not buy one a seat.
There are no arguments in favour of people getting free ride because they are criminals whilst other people are paying the proper price.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Is that meant to have any relationship to anything I actually said or are you making shit up again?
You're defending fare dodging. I don't see how I made anything up.
_angel_
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As someone that always pays could I just say I don't give a fuck about fare dodgers and certainly don't have some great big wank over them like you appear to be doing.
What a div.
Is this international out yourself as a twat day on t'interweb?
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
And our taxes pay for the upkeep of the railways so it only seems fair they should be available for everyone to use. At current prices, they ain't.
Don't be ridiculous. Don't you realise these people are basically stealing from you? These people are criminal scum, just like any other form of criminal. Don't defend the indefensible.
_angel_
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lol
They are available to everyone. And don't come on here complying about fare prices and then defending cretins who think they deserve a free ride.
Like I said before, our railways are not a charity.
_angel_
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Are you Richard Branson?
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
A train ticket to go and see my mum would cost me about £130 return. Lots and lots of people (and not just chavs or dolescum or whatever else you might call poor people) don't have that kind of disposable income. That's half a week's pay for someone working full time at minimum wage.
And it's not fare dodgers who are stealing from you, it's the operators who use the infrastructure paid for by taxpayers to run a shite service at disproportionate cost and trouser the profits. And then they charge you 30p to take a piss at the train station, a station whose upkeep and operation you pay for. That's stealing, fare dodging is just re-appropriation.
From where to where? And what about Advance tickets, and the variety of Rail Cards that give 1/3 off?
That's not an excuse to steal it. I don't have the money for a Ferrari, should I steel one?
TOCs make about 5% on tickets like I said earlier, so they are not raking it in as you claim. And you didn't pay for the construction of stations as most were built by the Victorians. As for the loos the 30p a) pays for them to be kept nice and clean, and b) keeps undesirables out. IME toilets that are beyond the ticket barrier are usually free.
Bollocks.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Analogy fail. Ferrari is not a government subsidised organisation.
Probably more subsidies, and not having to deal with a) a very old infrastructure (being first comes with its problems, like the loading gauge issue) and b) years of under-investment.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
I consider snobbish misanthropes like you to be undesirable, and yet the railway network affords me no protection from the likes of you.
I don't see how expecting people to actually pay for the services that they use, rather than steal them, when everyone else has to makes me either of those things. The "views" perpetrated by some of the people on this website really are ridiculous sometimes.
Miss-Shelf
I'll meet you further on up the road
UKIP thread that way -------------->
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
If other people's opinions annoy you so much, perhaps a discussion board is not the best place for you.
Try the corner of the bar at your local wetherspoons, they'll take good care of you.
I have nothing in common with UKIP for your information. Do you like to see public toilets frequented by drug addicts and drunks and other people who wish to do unsavoury things in there? I thought not.
Other people's opinions don't annoy me. What annoys me is people trying to defend criminality when it's indefensible.
