Veganism going out of fashion

[hash tag]

Not just veganbut vegetarian restaurantsalso, has the tide turned? My personal experience is Vanilla Black did not reopen after COVID, Vegan Express in Tooting has long since closed, more recently Whole Food Cafe in Streatham has closed. I really thought these places would be thriving now, but apparently not. Now there is this

‘We block 10 people a day’: culture war trolls add to UK vegan restaurants’ struggles

Online abuse is latest challenge for plant-based eateries along with high costs and changing appetites

www.theguardian.com

 

[lazythursday]

There are two separate issues I think. One, veganism has been thoroughly forced into the culture war by the right. But the second - most vegan food is ridiculously overpriced when it should be cheaper. People don't like being ripped off.

None of this changes the fact that a diet heavy in meat isn't sustainable on all sorts of levels, and I think ultimately diets will shift to be more plant based regardless of what's currently fashionable.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That article doesn't really tease out the underlying reasons. Food prices have soared and restaurant prices have soared, so it's not surprising that many of them have gone to the wall. You'd need to look at which other restaurants have also been closing down to see what the underlying reasons are. Everyone is going to be thinking twice about eating out now.

The main message I get from that article is that the cost of living crisis is forcing smaller concerns out of business, leaving just the chains standing. Setting aside the vegan factor, that's depressing.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The 'pescatarian' thing gets me a bit. Overfishing is a massive problem. Fish farming is an environmental catastrophe in many areas as well as a welfare nightmare. Unless you're sticking to oysters and mussels, you're probably participating in unsustainable practices. And fish can suffer just like any other animal. I'm always a bit puzzled when people don't see fish as 'animals'.

 

[Yossarian]

Can't think of many sadder ways for someone to spend their time than trolling vegan restaurants on social media

 

[gosub]

Lbj is right on the eating out but the whole plant based drive they had at supermarkets was bollocks anyway...personally got more of a problem with ultra processed food than animal/veg. A disaster coz what went to make room for it...the cheaper cuts of meat...wasn't impacting on actual animals being killed...give me a lambs heart to stuff over a chemistry set anyday

 

[tommers]

Yeah a lot of frozen veggie food is awful stuff. Just crap.

 

[cesare]

Stamping "plant based" over everything possible and adding a "plant based" price increase has really pissed me off over the past few years.

 

[NoXion]

I'm not sure that online trolls should be taken as a reversal of recent trends, which I've understood to be that more people are on a vegan diet than ever. Even the fact that some restaurants have turned to serving meat to survive isn't all that conclusive; despite veganism's increasing popularity plenty of people still eat meat, and times are tough enough that broadening market appeal is a valid survival strategy for cash-strapped eateries.

Also, "ultra-processed food" is a meaningless buzzword. A food item doesn't have to be "ultra-processed" to be loaded with sugar and salt, and likewise processed foods aren't necessarily laden with such things. If the taste of increasing amounts of pre-made stuff is anything to go by these days, then they're skimping on the salt and fat more than ever. I had some cheap Tesco noodles recently and they were bland as fuck, it actually made me buy a bottle of soy sauce. The term is a naturalistic fallacy that ignores calories, nutritional content and activity levels.

 

[gosub]

I'm not sure that online trolls should be taken as a reversal of recent trends, which I've understood to be that more people are on a vegan diet than ever. Even the fact that some restaurants have turned to serving meat to survive isn't all that conclusive; despite veganism's increasing popularity plenty of people still eat meat, and times are tough enough that broadening market appeal is a valid survival strategy for cash-strapped eateries.

Also, "ultra-processed food" is a meaningless buzzword. A food item doesn't have to be "ultra-processed" to be loaded with sugar and salt, and likewise processed foods aren't necessarily laden with such things. If the taste of increasing amounts of pre-made stuff is anything to go by these days, then they're skimping on the salt and fat more than ever. I had some cheap Tesco noodles recently and they were bland as fuck, it actually made me buy a bottle of soy sauce. The term is a naturalistic fallacy that ignores calories, nutritional content and activity levels.

I ain't trolling tbf it was not being able to get faggots was what made me notice (which ain't exactly unprocessed) ...point is as it is..Roast heart acquired a taste from my who grew up under rationing...was always OK with (she thought I might have prob but was normalised b4 grasped she wasn't saying roast tart)

 

[NoXion]

I ain't trolling tbf it was not being able to get faggots was what made me notice (which ain't exactly unprocessed) ...point is as it is

The trolls I was referring to are the ones sending nastygrams to the Facebook pages of vegan restaurants.

 

[gosub]

The trolls I was referring to are the ones sending nastygrams to the Facebook pages of vegan restaurants.

Fair enough..different take but hope you get I'm looking at the food chain respectfully

 

[belboid]

Also, "ultra-processed food" is a meaningless buzzword. A food item doesn't have to be "ultra-processed" to be loaded with sugar and salt, and likewise processed foods aren't necessarily laden with such things. If the taste of increasing amounts of pre-made stuff is anything to go by these days, then they're skimping on the salt and fat more than ever. I had some cheap Tesco noodles recently and they were bland as fuck, it actually made me buy a bottle of soy sauce. The term is a naturalistic fallacy that ignores calories, nutritional content and activity levels.

Ultra-processed food isn't really about sugar or salt at all. In fact simply adding either of those ingredients makes a food processed, not ultra-processed. UPFs have aded non-natural ingredients, its the chemical flavourings, colouring, emulsifiers etc that are the problem, they inhibit the uptake of nutrients and can be explicitly harmful in and of themselves. UPF's may well have high sugar and salt as well, but it isn't them that is the main problem.

 

[T & P]

It could simply be a case that, in this country at least, the costs and overheads of running a shop or restaurant are such that you need the widest possible range of customer demographic to make a profit, and by restricting it to a minority of potential customers, it just isn’t economically viable in most areas.

I realise that in an ideal world vegans would prefer to eat at places that don’t serve non-vegan food, but we don’t leave in an ideal world. At the end of the day, if there is demand for vegan food, there will be a market for it. But it might have to be a space shared with meat options on the menu.

 

[Sue]

.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It could simply be a case that, in this country at least, the costs and overheads of running a shop or restaurant are such that you need the widest possible range of customer demographic to make a profit, and by restricting it to a minority of potential customers, it just isn’t economically viable in most areas.

It kind of obviously is that. In any economic downturn, niche businesses providing non-essential services are likely to be the first to suffer. Unfortunately The Guardian has form for reporting shit like this with angles that a bit more research would show not to be true.

In many parts of the UK, business rents and rates are prohibitive at the best of times. That's a problem that predates recent economic woes. We're all ripped off by landlords. Businesses, customers, employees, everyone. A big chunk of what we pay goes straight into the landowner's pocket.

 

[kenny g]

A big chunk of what we pay goes straight into the landowner's pocket.

I really can't be arsed to be fleeced when I walk out the door. Occasionally one finds decent food at a reasonable price but a lot of the times some packed food is a better option.

 

[SpookyFrank]

There really are a lot of angry weirdos who take other people being vegan personally. But as they seem to respond by eating nothing but poorly-cooked red meat themselves, this problem is likely to solve itself via natural selection pretty soon.

 

[SpookyFrank]

We get plenty of, 'puny vegans, me kill all food with bare hands' caveman bullshit on here too of course. As usual with this kind of behaviour it's mostly males who are getting old without ever really having amounted to much and who are unable to usefully process their feelings about that.

 

[nightowl]

There really are a lot of angry weirdos who take other people being vegan personally. But as they seem to respond by eating nothing but poorly-cooked red meat themselves, this problem is likely to solve itself via natural selection pretty soon.

Trolls target anything they regard as different, 'woke' etc. A lot of those targeting vegans are probably the same ones making nasty comments under women's sport stories etc.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Trolls target anything they regard as different, 'woke' etc. A lot of those targeting vegans are probably the same ones making nasty comments under women's sport stories etc.

I've been enjoying some of the weeping and wailing over the new names for the London overground lines. These people don't seem to have any clue about how fragile and pathetic they make themselves look.

 

[RubyToogood]

The other aspect to this is that practically all restaurants/pubs/cafes have vegan options now so you don't have to go to the vegan restaurant if you want to eat out.

 

[ska invita]

There are two separate issues I think. One, veganism has been thoroughly forced into the culture war by the right.

There's endless anti Vegan "jokes" posted on the bandwidth thread recently, an indicator of just that

My annoyance with the recent vegan boom is that it wasnt predicated on whole food but on veggie burgers in brioche buns.

And supermarket meat alternatives are either affordable and made from wheat (which is shit from a dietary point of view), or expensive. Ready made sandwiches and ready meals have really gone backwards and fast the last year or so.

 

[Elpenor]

I am not veggie or vegan so don’t necessarily have skin in the game but if I was I’d probably be a bit pissed off with the dominance of meat alternatives that look and feel and perhaps taste like meat over interesting veggie dishes using tangible ingredients

 

[Sue]

The other aspect to this is that practically all restaurants/pubs/cafes have vegan options now so you don't have to go to the vegan restaurant if you want to eat out.

My sisters (both vegan for a very long time) are in two minds about this. Of course it's great more places have vegan options but they feel quite strongly that they'd rather support vegan businesses/places that were doing vegan stuff before it got trendy as otherwise those places will close. (Which is obviously what's happening now.)

 

[ash]

Not just veganbut vegetarian restaurantsalso, has the tide turned? My personal experience is Vanilla Black did not reopen after COVID, Vegan Express in Tooting has long since closed, more recently Whole Food Cafe in Streatham has closed. I really thought these places would be thriving now, but apparently not. Now there is this

‘We block 10 people a day’: culture war trolls add to UK vegan restaurants’ struggles

Online abuse is latest challenge for plant-based eateries along with high costs and changing appetites

www.theguardian.com

The owners of Vanilla Black have moved to Spain. They made the wise decision to close during the early stage of the pandemic. Sadly missed though.

 

[Brainaddict]

I am not veggie or vegan so don’t necessarily have skin in the game but if I was I’d probably be a bit pissed off with the dominance of meat alternatives that look and feel and perhaps taste like meat over interesting veggie dishes using tangible ingredients

Yeah, it's a bit silly. I do a lot of vegan cooking and rarely use meat subsitutes, except for a bit of tofu or tempeh here and there. You make a decent vegan meal out of veg, legumes, nuts, wholegrains etc, and using a recipe designed for vegan eating, not by putting a meat substitute into some recipe designed for meat. But I guess there must be a market for this stuff, probably partly for people who don't know how to do tasty vegan cooking.

 

[dessiato]

I am not veggie or vegan so don’t necessarily have skin in the game but if I was I’d probably be a bit pissed off with the dominance of meat alternatives that look and feel and perhaps taste like meat over interesting veggie dishes using tangible ingredients

This is a bit like my position. I enjoy vegetable dishes, they can be very good in their own right. I don't want, or need, to pretend they're meat. Speaking to my friends who are vegetarian or vegan they feel the same.

 

[8ball]

But I guess there must be a market for this stuff, probably partly for people who don't know how to do tasty vegan cooking.

Plus maybe people whose cooking skills aren’t great. When it comes to ready made stuff, loads of the vegan stuff seems to involve a substitute. Maybe they’re aiming at “beginner vegans”, like the Veganuary overspill.

 

[JimW]

In fashion or out of fashion, so long as I'm still doing it, it will always be cool.