redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
I don't think you're being especially cynical there Chil - there could be quite a lot of changes in direction between now and October.
Universities
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If it’s all going to be online anyway the Open University would cost less: Fees | Funding | Bursaries | The Open University
elbows
Well-Known Member
I'll give Cardiff Uni a bonus point for this:
Note the crappy attitude from the authorities and other Uni's who took their advice.
Coronavirus testing service set up by Cardiff University
Testing is voluntary, but other universities say they will not set up similar programmes.
www.bbc.co.uk
Note the crappy attitude from the authorities and other Uni's who took their advice.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
The UCU line about universities possibly being the 'care homes of the 2nd wave' grates a little, but having said that, campuses are shaping up as pretty effective transmission mechanisms. Not so much I'd guess what goes in the socially distant classroom, more large numbers of students socialising, moving round the country etc.
www.ucu.org.uk
I agree that we shouldn't be going back to campuses until the various tests are met in this document. Same time there are worries about what the employers will do if we start to normalise fully online degrees. Where we'll be in 12 months, who knows? Covid, along with the financial crisis is going to lead to more universities abandoning national pay bargaining, Disaster Capitalism run by disastrous management.
Universities must not become the care homes of a Covid second wave
Universities must scrap plans to reopen campuses next month in order to prevent a major public health crisis, said UCU today.
I agree that we shouldn't be going back to campuses until the various tests are met in this document. Same time there are worries about what the employers will do if we start to normalise fully online degrees. Where we'll be in 12 months, who knows? Covid, along with the financial crisis is going to lead to more universities abandoning national pay bargaining, Disaster Capitalism run by disastrous management.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Which unis have abandoned npb already?The UCU line about universities possibly being the 'care homes of the 2nd wave' grates a little, but having said that, campuses are shaping up as pretty effective transmission mechanisms. Not so much I'd guess what goes in the socially distant classroom, more large numbers of students socialising, moving round the country etc.
Universities must not become the care homes of a Covid second wave
Universities must scrap plans to reopen campuses next month in order to prevent a major public health crisis, said UCU today.
I agree that we shouldn't be going back to campuses until the various tests are met in this document. Same time there are worries about what the employers will do if we start to normalise fully online degrees. Where we'll be in 12 months, who knows? Covid, along with the financial crisis is going to lead to more universities abandoning national pay bargaining, Disaster capitalism run by disastrous management.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I heard Sunderland and Reading have. This was a passing mention in a branch email at my place, which is neither of those institutions. A quick search doesn't confirm anything, so it might still be at the level of rumour/surmise.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Maybe they've been paying attention to what's been happening in the States?The UCU line about universities possibly being the 'care homes of the 2nd wave' grates a little, but having said that, campuses are shaping up as pretty effective transmission mechanisms. Not so much I'd guess what goes in the socially distant classroom, more large numbers of students socialising, moving round the country etc.
Universities must not become the care homes of a Covid second wave
Universities must scrap plans to reopen campuses next month in order to prevent a major public health crisis, said UCU today.
I agree that we shouldn't be going back to campuses until the various tests are met in this document. Same time there are worries about what the employers will do if we start to normalise fully online degrees. Where we'll be in 12 months, who knows? Covid, along with the financial crisis is going to lead to more universities abandoning national pay bargaining, Disaster Capitalism run by disastrous management.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I'd seen a couple of US examples such as Alabama, but that's awful. Fwiw, I don't think the inevitable UK university based outbreaks will be that bad, with slightly better monitoring/compliance in towns, bars and the Universities themselves, but outbreaks there will be. Hopefully those predatory companies who organise freshers pub crawls, which have been linked to sexual violence iirc, have been sidelined by anti covid regulations. Will they be hit by the fines for those organising raves? Perhaps not if they claim they are observing social distancing (lol).
Edit: For example:
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Admire your optimism.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
See edit.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Well care homes have been associated with many tens of thousands of deaths, so yeah that line did not go down well with either me or my Mum when we heard it.
Not that I really like to separate outbreaks in different settings too much in my mind since one sort can sew the seeds for deadly outbreaks in another sort of setting.
Whatever reassuring and true things authorities and experts can say about the chances of younger people and children dying from this virus, it doesnt help with issues relating to the role of spread between younger people leading to outbreaks in different age groups.
And authorities bloody well know this even if there are times they dont want to talk about it. I can say that with absolute confidence because one of the things with the respiratory epidemic/pandemic modelling systems that are used to make projections about influenza epidemics and pandemics, and now this coronavirus pandemic, is that they absolutely make sure to feed educational holiday times into the model. Because all sorts of human contact mixing patterns are different when when school is running compared to when it is not. Granted this most obviously reasons for this leap more readily to mind in connection with schools rather than universities, and there are lots of assumptions and estimates used by models rather than hard facts, which are lacking. And they still dont really know quite how much this coronavirus will differ to what they think they've seen with flu for decades in this respect.
Not that I really like to separate outbreaks in different settings too much in my mind since one sort can sew the seeds for deadly outbreaks in another sort of setting.
Whatever reassuring and true things authorities and experts can say about the chances of younger people and children dying from this virus, it doesnt help with issues relating to the role of spread between younger people leading to outbreaks in different age groups.
And authorities bloody well know this even if there are times they dont want to talk about it. I can say that with absolute confidence because one of the things with the respiratory epidemic/pandemic modelling systems that are used to make projections about influenza epidemics and pandemics, and now this coronavirus pandemic, is that they absolutely make sure to feed educational holiday times into the model. Because all sorts of human contact mixing patterns are different when when school is running compared to when it is not. Granted this most obviously reasons for this leap more readily to mind in connection with schools rather than universities, and there are lots of assumptions and estimates used by models rather than hard facts, which are lacking. And they still dont really know quite how much this coronavirus will differ to what they think they've seen with flu for decades in this respect.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
This one promises that you'll meet more than 100 new friends before the night is out. Cracking idea. 
www.eventbrite.co.uk
The Big Freshers Pub Crawls 2020
The idea is pretty simple: It’s the biggest inter-collegiate pub crawl in Freshers! 5 bars and clubs in 5 hours with FREE Shots along the way. Drink deals in every bar and queue-jump entry to the best clubs in London! You save the ticket price on drinks prices throughout the night, and on club...
www.eventbrite.co.uk
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Sad truth is...I wouldn't have been surprised if that hadn't been a strap-line claim from a university brochure.This one promises that you'll meet more than 100 new friends before the night is out. Cracking idea.
The Big Freshers Pub Crawls 2020
The idea is pretty simple: It’s the biggest inter-collegiate pub crawl in Freshers! 5 bars and clubs in 5 hours with FREE Shots along the way. Drink deals in every bar and queue-jump entry to the best clubs in London! You save the ticket price on drinks prices throughout the night, and on club...
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Here's Aberdeen's:
www.tickx.com
This is somewhat like holding a festival of unprotected sex at the height of the hiv/aids outbreak. If of course these events go ahead - and I'm not sure what will stop them.
Aberdeen`s Biggest Welcome Party// The Mile Freshers Pub Golf 2020 Tickets @ Multiple Nightclubs and bars in Aberdeen - 31 May 18:00 | TickX
Save on tickets for Aberdeen`s Biggest Welcome Party// The Mile Freshers Pub Golf 2020 by comparing prices with TickX, the simple, hassle-free way to search for the best tickets. Multiple Nightclubs and bars in Aberdeen on 31 May 2021 18:00
www.tickx.com
Yay, let's kill some elderly relatives!
This is somewhat like holding a festival of unprotected sex at the height of the hiv/aids outbreak. If of course these events go ahead - and I'm not sure what will stop them.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
BMJ not keen on the idea of campuses returning:
www.bmj.com
Covid-19: re-opening universities is high risk
The key is to curb community transmission then provide frequent testing Over a third of US colleges and universities fully reopened in August.1 It was risky: at the beginning of the month, the US had about 55 000 new cases per day2 and no federal covid-19 control plan or coordinated vision for...
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Yep.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Yep
miss direct
misfungled
Dear God, even I know the answer to that!
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Have a feeling they might have a more definite view if the question was 'what happens to already paid accommodation fees if the students go home'.
Chz
Stark Raving Sane
Had an interesting missive from VC about our slip down the Guardian's rankings. Some of it no doubt arse-covering, but there is a bit that rang true:
For "transformation program" read "massive job cuts". Lucky for all those staff members that they were cut a few years earlier than they would have been!
I suppose I shouldn't complain, since it means I haven't lost any permanent co-workers. The contractors obviously did not get renewed.
I suppose I shouldn't complain, since it means I haven't lost any permanent co-workers. The contractors obviously did not get renewed.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I am pleased that in some quarters the past nine months have not happened
Miss-Shelf
I'll meet you further on up the road
Local public health managers will be demanding their plans on this
Asking them to isolate students in place with separate facilities, to the extent of hiring hotel rooms or face liability for a spread
I guess uni accommodation managers are hoping for students to pay up and then for govt to command all learning to be online this term
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Universities are being forced to lie about being COVID safe
Universities know they will become infection hot-spots. But shutting before the government tells them to will leave them bankrupt.
www.opendemocracy.net
Miss-Shelf
I'll meet you further on up the road
Totally thisUniversities are being forced to lie about being COVID safe
Universities know they will become infection hot-spots. But shutting before the government tells them to will leave them bankrupt.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Yep. My HoD herself and, apparently, those she speaks to imagine we'll be back to fully online within weeks. In fact it's being taken as a fixed point in the discussion, though we are still desperately trying to work out and put in place what the 'hybrid model' will mean. Everything follows from the promise my institution made a couple of months ago that all students will get at least 4 hours on campus. That wasn't a teaching and learning promise, in some cases it means changing the teaching learning approach, that was itself set in stone. Purely a marketing/free market decision that will, literally, risk lives. Universities are now in a game of chicken where they have to cling on to the hybrid model till the last moment, waiting for their competitors to crumble first - and then go fully online as they've always expected. Within that will be interim stages where they pretend specific outbreaks were just in one building or just a couple of students.
One thing the government could have done was ensure institutions would be protected from fees rebate claims where an individual university returns to fully online, but they won't. There are no easy answer for staff and students, but putting in place a hybrid model that can't last is just about the worst way to go.
PursuedByBears
Go stick your head in a pig
Fairly sure that's the case at my university
