Universities

[Wilf]

Basically, universities scrabbling round to put together a 'hybrid model' that almost certainly won't last beyond the end of October, at the latest. Immense amount of effort which, in a rational world, should have been spent on thinking through what a more humane version of online only might be (such as considering what it actually means to 'be a student' in such circumstances, how to contend with isolation etc.). The real risk is likely to be in student accommodation and social life, but campus teaching provides a real threat to health - not least through the anxiety it will generate. And all because of a market system and the prisoner's dilemma it creates between institutions, unable to back out of the 'promises' they made. All played out in via the lens of self contained managerialst shite and the irrationalities of 'rational' systems. The only positive I can think of is that it should finally shatter any remaining liberal assumptions about the nature of HE.

Pretty much a microcosm of how the government's ideology and lack of foresight is taking us - ill prepared - into a second wave.

 

[chilango]

Really everything non-essential, and I'm including University in this, should have just been put on hold for a year and UBI doled out and the time used for mental and physical well-being.

 

[Pickman's model]

Basically, universities scrabbling round to put together a 'hybrid model' that almost certainly won't last beyond the end of October, at the latest. Immense amount of effort which, in a rational world, should have been spent on thinking through what a more humane version of online only might be (such as considering what it actually means to 'be a student' in such circumstances, how to contend with isolation etc.). The real risk is likely to be in student accommodation and social life, but campus teaching provides a real threat to health - not least through the anxiety it will generate. And all because of a market system and the prisoner's dilemma it creates between institutions, unable to back out of the 'promises' they made. All played out in via the lens of self contained managerialst shite and the irrationalities of 'rational' systems. The only positive I can think of is that it should finally shatter any remaining liberal assumptions about the nature of HE.

Pretty much a microcosm of how the government's ideology and lack of foresight is taking us - ill prepared - into a second wave.

I think you confuse marketised he with other forms of he, what we have now is a twisted and bastardised he sector which bears no resemblance bar the name to any genuinely enquiring he sector

 

[kabbes]

Really everything non-essential, and I'm including University in this, should have just been put on hold for a year and UBI doled out and the time used for mental and physical well-being.

Or learn from the OU, whose experience was seamless (cancelled exams aside, in the minority of cases where these would have existed).

It’s been really interesting these last four years to compare my experience at the OU with the kabbess who is just starting her sixth part time year at Roehampton. There are clear things she has that I don’t (particularly since she is a biomedic, which means lab work is important). She has had close access to individuals actively engaged in research, which has created within her the identity of a scientist. These things are really important. But when it comes to the actual learning experience, the OU was already light years ahead even before the coronatimes.

 

[Wilf]

Or learn from the OU, whose experience was seamless (cancelled exams aside, in the minority of cases where these would have existed).

It’s been really interesting these last four years to compare my experience at the OU with the kabbess who is just starting her sixth part time year at Roehampton. There are clear things she has that I don’t (particularly as a biomedic, which means lab work is important). She has had close access to those actively engaged in research, which has created the identity with her of a scientist. But when it comes to the actually learning experience, the OU was light years ahead even before the coronatimes.

Yeah, the OU are very good. Trouble is if the rest of the sector 'pivots' (the latest managerialspeak word that I hate) to online teaching it may not be quite there if my place is anything to go off. Last week we managed to get a 5 minute chat with a technician who gave us an entirely overview of the differences between using Blackboard Collaborate Vs Blackboard and Team - as in a list of pros and cons, not an actual demo. The guy is very good, fwiw, but we are miles away from delivering even the most basic version of our modules in, fuck, 10 days.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Really everything non-essential, and I'm including University in this, should have just been put on hold for a year and UBI doled out and the time used for mental and physical well-being.

Universities do some essential things. They train doctors, nurses, teachers etc. Unfortunately they're also marketed as theme parks for teenagers.

Showing my hand here, I am due to start teacher training next week. It's not something I can realistically learn to do without some level of in-person instruction and practice. Current timetable is for one short day on campus per week, with the cohort spilt into three separate bubbles. Everything else online. Then school placements starting in December. I'm really hoping that I get some real life tuition, but also that the undergrads are kept at home for the duration. Which is not very fair of me but there it is.

 

[chilango]

Yeah. But a lot of Uni stuff can be done remotely. Of that that cant, a lot can be paused for year. Leaving only a little bit that has to be done, and has to be done f2f.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

Universities do some essential things. They train doctors, nurses, teachers etc. Unfortunately they're also marketed as theme parks for teenagers.

Showing my hand here, I am due to start teacher training next week. It's not something I can realistically learn to do without some level of in-person instruction and practice. Current timetable is for one short day on campus per week, with the cohort spilt into three separate bubbles. Everything else online. Then school placements starting in December. I'm really hoping that I get some real life tuition, but also that the undergrads are kept at home for the duration. Which is not very fair of me but there it is.

I would like this to happen too.
That people on QTS or social worker courses can have the building and the rest of ug can be taught online.
Because teaching everyone online would be more satisfying from a T & L point of veiew

 

[PursuedByBears]

Yeah. But a lot of Uni stuff can be done remotely. Of that that cant, a lot can be paused for year. Leaving only a little bit that has to be done, and has to be done f2f.

Without government subsidies (none forthcoming so far) nothing can be paused for a year without universities going bust, or at least without sacking shitloads of staff.

 

[chilango]

Without government subsidies (none forthcoming so far) nothing can be paused for a year without universities going bust, or at least without sacking shitloads of staff.

I know

Without govt funding everything is fucked right now.

Let's see what gets the funding.

 

[redsquirrel]

Clearly there should be funding support provided by the government.

However, even in the current situation there are alternatives that could be implemented - for a start the pay of senior managers could be cut severely, the large undemocratic senior management teams that have been created could be done away with, universities could collectively decide to abandon the REF and re-purpose those staff that have been working on that into other more currently vital areas.

And the financial pressures that universities are under are a direct result of the political decisions made by the senior managers of institutions - they decided to attack workers pay and conditions. to milk the unsustainable cash cow of foreign students, to buy in research leaders, to outsource work to private providers, to build large anti-social student housing.

 

[chilango]

Clearly there should be funding support provided by the government.

However, even in the current situation there are alternatives that could be implemented - for a start the pay of senior managers could be cut severely, the large undemocratic senior management teams that have been created could be done away with, universities could collectively decide to abandon the REF and re-purpose those staff that have been working on that into other more currently vital areas.

And the financial pressures that universities are under are a direct result of the political decisions made by the senior managers of institutions - they decided to attack workers pay and conditions. to milk the unsustainable cash cow of foreign students, to buy in research leaders, to outsource work to private providers, to build large anti-social student housing.

...to build expensive overseas campuses "funded" by optimistic expectations of perpetual growth and expansion.

 

[chilango]

Cases/outbreaks so far:

1. St Andrew's
2. Warwick
3. Manchester Metropolitan

 

[Cerv]

Cases/outbreaks so far:

1. St Andrew's
2. Warwick
3. Manchester Metropolitan

Napier too

 

[Wilf]

Napier too

Bath too.

University of Bath confirms coronavirus cases

An undisclosed number of people are self-isolating

www.somersetlive.co.uk

That doesn't make it clear whether it is staff or students. Bit early for new students to be on campus in a pre-92. However the Napier one was in student accommodation, as is the Manchester Met:

Students isolating after Covid outbreak on campus days after '100-strong' rave

A handful of cases have been confirmed at a block of flats at Birley Halls

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

I and others have been predicting that the rise in HE infections will be driven by new students pissed/partying/shagging. And here we go, right on cue, the probable cause of the Manchester outbreak in the same halls. We really are fucked, this was so predictable and we haven't even started the fucking term yet.

Concerns about social distancing as '100 students' keep residents awake at halls

"It was like a rave, they were just p****d"

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

 

[maomao]

We had been split into two groups due to classroom restrictions but as the uni is now allowing up to 23 students in that room we're going to be put in one big group on Tuesday so we can all do presentations. So everyone gets 5 minutes to stand at the front projecting their germs over the whole class. Two students in the class had 'colds' during our online lecture last week though one of them assured us it wasn't covid in an eye-rolling 'don't be silly' kind of way (rather than an 'I had a test' way) so that's okay then.

 

[chilango]

expecting a similar curve to the one we're watching in schools tbh

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I'm really not looking forward to going in to work this week.

 

[Wilf]

Oxford Brookes, again linked to 'partying':

Partying students behind covid cases, university admits

Partying students at Oxford Brookes are behind a 'small but growing' number of coronavirus cases in the city, the university has admitted.

www.oxfordmail.co.uk

So, that's cases in/linked to 6 out of 130 institutions, before the term even starts. If the government want to clamp down on transmission, the return to campuses, halls and student house parties would be close to the top of the To Do list. Instead, they and university leaders are going to walk into this knowing what will happen and that they will have to clamp down within, what, a fortnight?

Just in passing, I think that 'blame the partying students' is becoming a subset of the government's own blame the people strategy. Don't get me wrong, partying is socially irresponsible, but what the fuck do the government think will happen when they invite tens of thousands of 18 year olds to descend on town and city centres?

 

[SlideshowBob]

expecting a similar curve to the one we're watching in schools tbh

Could potentially be even worse due to the fact students are a lot more likely to travel around to different parts of the country, with many of them living and spending their time in major cities, which already tend to be hotspots for the virus.

If the current situation continues to worsen and in-person teaching is largely axed then I suspect we'll see a lot of students in halls potentially heading home to stay with their parents for a while, which again could see them carrying the virus from major cities to less affected areas.

 

[chilango]

If the current situation continues to worsen and in-person teaching is largely axed then I suspect we'll see a lot of students in halls potentially heading home to stay with their parents for a while, which again could see them carrying the virus from major cities to less affected areas.

I'm not sure they'll be allowed to.

 

[SlideshowBob]

Oxford Brookes, again linked to 'partying':

Partying students behind covid cases, university admits

Partying students at Oxford Brookes are behind a 'small but growing' number of coronavirus cases in the city, the university has admitted.

www.oxfordmail.co.uk

So, that's cases in/linked to 6 out of 130 institutions, before the term even starts. If the government want to clamp down on transmission, the return to campuses, halls and student house parties would be close to the top of the To Do list. Instead, they and university leaders are going to walk into this knowing what will happen and that they will have to clamp down within, what, a fortnight?

Just in passing, I think that 'blame the partying students' is becoming a subset of the government's own blame the people strategy. Don't get me wrong, partying is socially irresponsible, but what the fuck do the government think will happen when they invite tens of thousands of 18 year olds to descend on town and city centres?

Most student halls are generally quite small as well - they're not really designed for spending all of your time in, because most students who live in them are generally going to be out at parties, socialising with friends in other halls, or they'll be at classes or going to work etc. This should've been considered before attempting to continue on as normal.

But as you say it sort of suits the government by allowing them to try to back away from holding any responsibility, even though governments inevitably have to consider realities of human nature and make political decisions according to that.

 

[Wilf]

I'm not sure they'll be allowed to.

Without digging them out I've certainly seen stories about universities being told to 'encourage' students to stay in halls in the case of an outbreak. Some not very good mental health outcomes are likely.

 

[SlideshowBob]

I'm not sure they'll be allowed to.

Not sure how you actually monitor this though in a way that could be effective. Even at peak lockdown during March a lot of people could still generally move around from one place to another without a ridiculous amount of hassle. And if a student at university finds themselves mentally unwell because they've been confined to a small space with no familial support then it's going to potentially be even more harmful to not let them go home.

 

[Pickman's model]

Most student halls are generally quite small as well - they're not really designed for spending all of your time in, because most students who live in them are generally going to be out at parties, socialising with friends in other halls, or they'll be at classes or going to work etc. This should've been considered before attempting to continue on as normal.

But as you say it sort of suits the government by allowing them to try to back away from holding any responsibility, even though governments inevitably have to consider realities of human nature and make political decisions according to that.

A lot of student halls are quite big.

 

[maomao]

If they lock them in the unis then I don't reckon they all need to isolate anyway. If they're all away from vulnerable parts of the population why shouldn't they get drunk together and bang each others' brains out? Probably better than being locked down at home.

 

[miss direct]

Sheffield city centre was very busy on Saturday - lots of students moving in to private halls, walking around with new bins/toilet paper etc. Loads of them in Tesco, many maskless. I'll be avoiding town for a while.

 

[nyxx]

I wonder how many classes at unis are made up solely of young people who are in halls.
Ime there’s at least a couple of mature students on any given course whose living situation / lifestyle in general is very different to the rest of the course’s. But my experience is not that wide ofc.

If they lock them in the unis then I don't reckon they all need to isolate anyway. If they're all away from vulnerable parts of the population why shouldn't they get drunk together and bang each others' brains out? Probably better than being locked down at home.

 

[SlideshowBob]

A lot of student halls are quite big.

Depends where you're staying I suppose - but for many even a moderate amount of space in a flat with people they don't really know all that well might not be preferable to staying at home with their parents, especially if they're not getting the many benefits and advantages which are supposed to come with uni life. Even plenty of those who do live in relative comfort might still opt for leaving for a while, and it'll be hard to stop them.

 

[miss direct]

Well yes, you don't get to choose who you live with in the first year in halls, so assuming that students will stick to their household bubble thing is really silly.