maomao
普費斯
I'm saying allowances should be made. Particularly as they seem to have been hoodwinked in the first place.
Universities
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beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
You just say each accommodation block is one household. Job done.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I agree something needs to happen, but I don't think universities have (or should have) the authority to make changes to the national rules and laws like that tbh. Also can you imagine the fallout if it then spreads wider and a student (or more) dies, they'd rightly be terrified of being held liable.
I think the first option should be self-isolation with comprehensive support in place, testing, then home for the year with a full refund of all accommodation costs and courses all run online. And a massive fucking apology.
I think the first option should be self-isolation with comprehensive support in place, testing, then home for the year with a full refund of all accommodation costs and courses all run online. And a massive fucking apology.
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I don’t know about that. I know that both Cambridge and Roehampton announced right at the beginning of the summer that their lectures for the coming year would be online only.
Because we have no idea whether or not they are at more risk of viral meningitis. As things stand we literally have no clue what the long term effects of this virus are beyond the fact that it kills some people. There’s already signs of it creating an ME-style chronic fatigue in some young, fit, healthy people. That would be a hell of a life sentence to saddle an 18 year old with.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Gotta wonder whether this next week will start to see the break-out stories in the news?
The risk of serious illness leading to hospitalisation or death is probably low. The risk of getting long covid, with possible life changing consequences in some cases, may not be so different to people who are older.
Spandex
A crazy bulbous punchbag of sound
This university Covid fiasco makes me so fucking angry as it was totally avoidable. It's been caused by a pile up of disastrous decisions going back a decade.
While Universities had been moving towards marketisation it was the introduction of tuition fees under Cameron/Clegg that turned them into businesses first and education institutions second. And University management accross the land has bought into the business model. They attract customers with their offerings in the same way as car or cereal manufacturers. There are premium brands (Oxbridge), quality brands (Russell Group) and budget brands (some of the former Polys). They seek to maximise income by attracting customers (formerly known as students) with an appealing offer.
The A-Level fiasco earlier in the summer, combined with the prospect of mass unemployment and there being little else for 18 year olds to do this coming year has seen a huge amount of young people decide to become students this year. The University businesses have sought to attract these customers and a way of putting themselves in a good position has been offering face-to-face teaching ('blended learning') when others were going online only. That was always going to be a bad idea, but business gonna business unless they're made not to. The government could have stepped in and offered financial support and insisted on online only, but instead they've spent the summer being all 'business as usual'. That's led to academics working flat out all summer scratching their heads over how to do blended learning in a safe environment when it's been clear that online only would be a better idea and will probably happen anyway.
Of course a load of 18 year olds being thrown together, many of them away from home for the first time, having had the message that they're low risk thrown at them for months, following six months of boredom, stress and disruption, were going to party. And of course the resurgent Covid was going to spread through them like wildfire.
Having got to this point it is totally out of order to point the finger of blame at individuals. The Universities and the Government should hang their heads in shame, throw resources at the students to give them the support they need and unravel some of the chaos they've created and go online only until the Covid situation is under control. The chances of the government taking any responsibility for this or doing the right thing is minimal. They'll blame the students and put it on the Universities to sort the mess out. The Universities will blame the students. And it'll be the young people who are left having a nightmare time, some of whom will probably suffer long term health consequences, maybe a few deaths all because of a love of the market by a generation of shitbag politicians.
While Universities had been moving towards marketisation it was the introduction of tuition fees under Cameron/Clegg that turned them into businesses first and education institutions second. And University management accross the land has bought into the business model. They attract customers with their offerings in the same way as car or cereal manufacturers. There are premium brands (Oxbridge), quality brands (Russell Group) and budget brands (some of the former Polys). They seek to maximise income by attracting customers (formerly known as students) with an appealing offer.
The A-Level fiasco earlier in the summer, combined with the prospect of mass unemployment and there being little else for 18 year olds to do this coming year has seen a huge amount of young people decide to become students this year. The University businesses have sought to attract these customers and a way of putting themselves in a good position has been offering face-to-face teaching ('blended learning') when others were going online only. That was always going to be a bad idea, but business gonna business unless they're made not to. The government could have stepped in and offered financial support and insisted on online only, but instead they've spent the summer being all 'business as usual'. That's led to academics working flat out all summer scratching their heads over how to do blended learning in a safe environment when it's been clear that online only would be a better idea and will probably happen anyway.
Of course a load of 18 year olds being thrown together, many of them away from home for the first time, having had the message that they're low risk thrown at them for months, following six months of boredom, stress and disruption, were going to party. And of course the resurgent Covid was going to spread through them like wildfire.
Having got to this point it is totally out of order to point the finger of blame at individuals. The Universities and the Government should hang their heads in shame, throw resources at the students to give them the support they need and unravel some of the chaos they've created and go online only until the Covid situation is under control. The chances of the government taking any responsibility for this or doing the right thing is minimal. They'll blame the students and put it on the Universities to sort the mess out. The Universities will blame the students. And it'll be the young people who are left having a nightmare time, some of whom will probably suffer long term health consequences, maybe a few deaths all because of a love of the market by a generation of shitbag politicians.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Agree with majority of that.
One set of individuals that do need to be blamed are the VCs (and other senior managers) of universities that proceeded on this utterly predictable course.
One set of individuals that do need to be blamed are the VCs (and other senior managers) of universities that proceeded on this utterly predictable course.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Introduction of tuition fees under Blair government, fees increased under coalition. It is totally in order to point finger at individuals. Johnson. Cummings. Hancock. And on and on, the architects of this fiasco.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Excuse me? What?
I'd be hesitant to put too much of the blame specifically on student tuition fees. Scotland's unis are in the exact same boat despite them charging zero fees to the students and receiving government funding instead.
the removal of any student number controls forces universities to compete for bums on seats. and the cutting of other funding makes them reliant on the extras like accommodation rents to subsidies the main business.
the logic of this market driver HE which has meant so few universities were willing to publicly commit to online learning before term started. because unless everywhere else has also, that puts you at a disadvantage in the market place offering a less attractive product. and of course if universities had coordinated to agree they'd all do online learning there would have been accusations of illegal anti-competitive behaviour.
the removal of any student number controls forces universities to compete for bums on seats. and the cutting of other funding makes them reliant on the extras like accommodation rents to subsidies the main business.
the logic of this market driver HE which has meant so few universities were willing to publicly commit to online learning before term started. because unless everywhere else has also, that puts you at a disadvantage in the market place offering a less attractive product. and of course if universities had coordinated to agree they'd all do online learning there would have been accusations of illegal anti-competitive behaviour.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Of course one side effect of such stories, true, partially true or otherwise, is that they add fuel to the anti mask/vacc/social distancing twats.
legally, I don't understand how a uni accommodation block isn't already considered a single household. is it the case that they are but universities are being over zealous in imposing their own restrictions?
after all, if you live sharing facilities in a single large home with extended family or a 7+ flatshare, then you are a single household allowed to mix in your 7+. not confined to your bedrooms.
even the very fancy modern expensive student accommodation with en-suite & kitchenette in each student's room, you're still in a bedroom in a very large shared home and not a self contained flat in a tower block. and most uni accommodation is older & less fancy than that.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
More than a decade ago undergraduates started to be a minority at some institutions, like ucl. I don't think the rents in halls there would greatly affect the balance of 'the main business' - precisely what this main business consists of you don't say and I'm not sure what you mean. Frankly no one should have been in uni accommodation this year because no one knew how long the virus would last. And there's lots of students esp from overseas who aren't attending - where I work we're starting using zoom to offer advice and support on library use
Cambridge said ages ago everything this year would be online. And I don't suppose this has done them the slightest harm.
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existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I've heard of quite a few people around here who decided to defer - a choice which I think is going to look increasingly wise.
Students not being able to go home for christmas has been floated as a possibility since earlier in the week - if we're on a strict lockdown by then (which is distinctly possible) I don't see how it's really going to be possible?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
tbh, none of this seems possible...but they've gone and done it, regardless.
Sure, but it's not really a 'wtf' thing is it? There's a good chance that no-one will be able to travel to be with family at Christmas, so 'guaranteeing' now that one of the larger groups of people who would normally be doing that will be able to would be something of a hostage to fortune.tbh, none of this seems possible...but they've gone and done it, regardless.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Man states bleeding obvious
I think they only said lectures would be online, didn't they?
Yep. Paying 9K to be a prisoner in a rabit hutch block with peple you've never met before.
And this galling thing now, students can go home at Xmas if everyone follows the rules. You fucking what.
. We were supposed to have this NHS app months ago. Test, test, test... Months ago.
The govt spaffed all that time and money up the wall on a half arsed failing test and trace system run by companies and individuals with a track record of fuck ups and bad employment practise. Dodgey app development everyone who knew anything about app development said wouldn't protect privacy oh and wouldn't even work anyway. Apple and Google themselves FFS.
But it's your fault students, young people, you who went to the pub.
Government of cunts.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Think it may be quite wtf for quite a few of those students & their families affected, tbh.
