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Celyn said:
I still think it neither completely unpleasant nor entirely unexpected.

Big problem here might be finance for universities. Renting out the halls for conferences of any kind was, I think, what happened at Easter. And summer.
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The current situation is as difficult and worrying for a lot of students and their families as it is for everyone else, especially the ones away from home for the first time, the ones who've got partners in their home towns, and so on. Being told they can't go home is going to be pretty devastating for some of them.

Conferences don't happen much over Christmas, but it would cost to provide cleaning, catering and so on, and a lot of institutions' finances are badly stretched as it is.

There might be good medical reasons to do this, but if it does happen it's not something to be taken lightly.
 
Celyn said:
Worst bit in Scottish universities seems to be in one or two halls in Glasgow, although things seem so fast moving now that I might be very out of date.

I didn't really mean much re the Physics Society and XYZ Society etc., only that they might be a vague example of how the people might meet likeminded others in a social setting, make friends even when riotous partying is not permitted.
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120 confirmed cases at Napier in Edinburgh too.
 
On this occasion if I look at plans and concerns that were considered by the likes of SAGE, the most obvious feature is that some timing expectations were probably out of whack with whats already started happened in September.

I cant be quoting every relevant part of the higher edcation paper I linked to the other day that SAGE endorsed on September 3rd, but here is just one example of their understanding of the risks in this sector:

There is a significant risk that Higher Education (HE) could amplify local and national transmission, and this requires national oversight. It is highly likely that there will be significant outbreaks associated with HE, and asymptomatic transmission may make these harder to detect. Outbreak response requires both local plans and coordinated national oversight and decision-making.
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The rest of government may well even have acknowledged all of this and various associated details for all I know, but once I move further through the document it becomes clear that the wrong impression of timing is already visible in paragraphs like this:

HE collectively creates a large number of connections within universities and communities and across the UK with considerable international links. A critical risk is a large number of infected students seeding outbreaks across the UK, influencing national transmission. With current virus prevalence and spatial heterogeneity there is a small risk of this at the beginning of term. However, if there is substantial amplification of infection in HE settings there is a more substantial risk at the end of term. Epidemic modelling within HE institutions suggests that large outbreaks are possible over a time period of weeks, so could peak towards the end of the term. Peak health impacts of these new infections and outbreaks they spark would coincide with the Christmas and New Year period posing a significant risk to both extended families and local communities (high confidence).
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I cannot judge the timing fully at this point, especially as I dont have a sense of how big a peak they are talking about there. But I would assume that what has already been seen in terms of outbreaks is beyond what the people who wrote that had in mind for late September.
 
And if the timing is all wrong then thats in great part because government didnt do all the things they were warned to do earlier, such as keeping a lid on infections in the community via other measures for a period before schools, colleges and universities resumed. In order for these things to resume with at least some time buffer between a somewhat successful restart and it all spinning out of control on the infections front later.
 
So the pub ban in Scotland actually only applies this weekend, it's been clarified.

Basically seems like they need to cut down the spread of the virus to catch up with all the positive cases they're trying to trace. Which isn't exactly a positive indictment on the tracing system, if it's unable to keep up with any larger-scale outbreaks effectively.
 
What an outright shitting fucking farce this is. The next week will see even more students coming into halls on the complete pretence that face to face teaching will happen through the term. I mean it already is happening in some places, but nobody even dreams they will still be in classrooms in .. 10 days, 2 weeks? Everybody has been stood there watching the road where the cars will collide for weeks. We've been saying that's the point of impact, that's where the wreckage will land. But no, UK universities and our shitting government are invested in the car crash, they can't conceive of a world where the car crash is avoided.

We are quite consciously bringing young people into a setting where they will be exposed to and will spread a virus. Even more so, saying 'rollup, roll up, there are you keys. Oh, you might not be able to leave for a fortnight... or go home at Xmas'. Fucking, Fucking Wow.
 
Just to be a little less florid for the moment... there must be some interesting conversations going on this weekend as incoming first year's and their families make decisions about whether to pack the car up. From the statements that are being issued at my place I don't think they will find anything too helpful in making that decision from the institutions.
 
A few thoughts:

If they get it now, surely they'll be ok for Christmas (?)

A lot of the staff working in pubs are students themselves, surely?

Students aren't a monolithic group of 18 year olds with Mum and Dad at "home" ready to whisk them back - for some students, their uni home is their only home, there are mature students, part time students, etc etc.

I don't really understand why anyone would have chosen to start uni at all this year...£9,000 in fees for a lot of uncertainty. I'm feeling negative though.
 
Are there any reports on HE colleges. They're back too. No student halls so more akin to schools. Lambeth are only having half of each class in each week, taking it in turns. I guess other colleges are doing similar.
 
miss direct said:
I don't really understand why anyone would have chosen to start uni at all this year...£9,000 in fees for a lot of uncertainty. I'm feeling negative though.
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What else should they do? Job market's bombed. They cant go travelling. Parents may not be able or willing to have them hanging about at home eating all the foods and not cleaning up after themselves. Treating it like a hotel. #notallstudents
 
Starting first year undergraduate at university this year just looks fucking awful.

The vice chancellor sent all students an email today, laying out the plan:
Students in halls will be classed as in a bubble with the people they live in halls with - groups of 6.
They’re instructed to only mix within that group of six, whether it’s in the halls or at a pub. If they go to a pub or restaurant they’re only to socialise with people from their bubble.

I cannot imagine how godawful it would have been to have no respite from the randoms I was assigned to live with. Out of ~700 in the halls there were about 8 people I made friends with - those friendships were really important, but they weren’t even in the same building.
 
quimcunx said:
What else should they do? Job market's bombed. They cant go travelling. Parents may not be able or willing to have them hanging about at home eating all the foods and not cleaning up after themselves. Treating it like a hotel. #notallstudents
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Yeah I suppose. I went and lived in a council flat, got engaged, worked in a pub, played The Sims, ate lots of beige food, and lived in a tent for a while - now that "gap year" really did motivate me to get a degree so I wouldn't have to live like that for the rest of my life.
 
miss direct said:
I don't really understand why anyone would have chosen to start uni at all this year...£9,000 in fees for a lot of uncertainty. I'm feeling negative though.
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I’m doing postgrad not undergrad but - it’s taken quite a bit of organisation to be able to do a HE course, especially sorting out the financial side and living arrangements. If it wasn’t for this, I don’t think I would have considered continuing this year.
 
also with all the fairly recent chaos of the A-Level results there'll be a lot of anxiety and skewed priorities as so many kids have now experienced that fear of education not being accessible to them and are going to act accordingly. I'm actually surprised there hasn't been an increase in people applying to uni - who the fuck wants to take their chances in the job market at the moment? Not like you can go travelling for your gap yaaaaah either
 
nyxx said:
Starting first year undergraduate at university this year just looks fucking awful.

The vice chancellor sent all students an email today, laying out the plan:
Students in halls will be classed as in a bubble with the people they live in halls with - groups of 6.
They’re instructed to only mix within that group of six, whether it’s in the halls or at a pub. If they go to a pub or restaurant they’re only to socialise with people from their bubble.

I cannot imagine how godawful it would have been to have no respite from the randoms I was assigned to live with. Out of ~700 in the halls there were about 8 people I made friends with - those friendships were really important, but they weren’t even in the same building.
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Yeah, it will be fucking shit for those who do stay in their bubble and fucking shit for everybody if they don't. And as muscovyduck said, what a fucking year those students have had. Not locking down early was the biggest mistake, but johnson could claim the evidence wasn't rock solid that point (he'd be wrong, he made a terrible call). But this disaster was put together step by step by the government. 'Right, so which group are seeing infections rising? Which group are more likely to be breaching lockdown rules, shagging randoms etc? Young people then? Okay, lets start moving them round the country and housing them in shared accommodation with a few parties'. It really is that fucking stupid. Genuine criminal negligence.
 
nyxx said:
I cannot imagine how godawful it would have been to have no respite from the randoms I was assigned to live with. Out of ~700 in the halls there were about 8 people I made friends with - those friendships were really important, but they weren’t even in the same building.
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Yep :(
 
miss direct said:
Yeah I suppose. I went and lived in a council flat, got engaged, worked in a pub, played The Sims, ate lots of beige food, and lived in a tent for a while - now that "gap year" really did motivate me to get a degree so I wouldn't have to live like that for the rest of my life.
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Getting a council flat at 18 is not going to happen for 18 year olds now (and subletting is illegal). Some pub workers are also students, but they're often older ones with experience rather than 18 year olds, and the pub trade is not exactly doing well. Neither is retail or most of the other sectors young adults usually get work in while studying. Even volunteering is going to be far more difficult - it's been competitive for years, and now the few places that are still open will have even more well-qualified adults to choose from.

Even getting engaged, or just starting a serious relationship, is going to be more difficult if you can't legally socialise.

I'm starting a postgrad degree, assuming I get the loan sorted, because there's going to be hardly any work for me this year and I don't want a year of doing nothing. Mostly online teaching is far from ideal, but it's better than nothing.
 
It wasn't my council flat. Obviously I'm not saying everyone should do as I did (looking back, it was a pointless year that achieved little), but spending 9k on fees plus accommodation and other related expenses may not be a good decision for many. For some, it may be the best of what's on offer for this year.

I totally get what you're saying though. Someone I know was complaining about someone else we know the other day (said person is unemployed), asking why they don't just go into the pubs and offer to work - it doesn't work like that anymore.

Good luck with your studies.
 
chilango said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54244333?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/scotland&link_location=live-reporting-story

I wouldn't fancy being stuck in a modern hall of residence.
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One I stayed in, late 90ss, converted office block in the city centre. Would not have fancied staying in there if you couldn't actually go out any where to meet people. As others said, you're stuck with a bunch of random other students. Most in my flat were young Toryish business study types. They thought I was a weirdo. I thought they were tossers.
 
One of the UK’s leading public health experts has warned that universities should be two-thirds empty in order to prevent massive spikes in coronavirus infections across campuses, as freshers describe the difficulties of starting student life under tight restrictions.

Prof John Ashton, the author of a new book on the pandemic, Blinded by Corona, said there needs to be “far less density” in student populations within university cities and towns this autumn otherwise there will be a major national increase in Covid-19 cases.
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www.theguardian.com

Universities should be two-thirds empty to avoid Covid spikes, says expert

Dr John Ashton calls for ‘far less density’ in student populations to avoid major increase in cases
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Sprog Uni have only just told him when enrolment is, it seems they may be splitting his year into three to reduce the numbers of students there at any one time. No news of distance learning yet but I expect there will be some of that also.

Are we still bubbling?
 
  1. St Andrews – 4 cases, 40 isolating
  2. Edinburgh Napier – 11 cases
  3. Glasgow – 124 cases
  4. Stirling – “a student”
  5. Oxford Brookes - “small but growing number”
  6. Bath – “small number”
  7. Manchester Metropolitan – “a handful of confirmed cases [32?]… after ‘100-strong’ party”
  8. Liverpool – 80 students and 7 staff
  9. Swansea – 12 students
  10. Aberdeen (Guardian summary) - "number unconfirmed"
  11. Robert Gordon (Ibid) - 2
  12. Abertay (Ibid) - Four cases, 500 isolating
  13. Exeter - "small number of students tested positive"
  14. Queen Margaret - "A number of students isolating after one positive"
  15. Kent - 2 confirmed cases on campus
  16. Uni of West England (Bristol) - 1 student tested positive, not symptomatic
  17. Leeds - 6 confirmed cases
  18. Warwick (Ibid) - 1
  19. De Montfort (Leicester) (Ibid)
  20. Gloucestershire
  21. Hull
  22. Newcastle
  23. Durham.
 
Last edited:
Decent piece here by Jo Grady
inews.co.uk

University Covid cases show the Government made a mistake - and it's students who'll be blamed

We should not be using students as scapegoats in a crisis of the Government’s making
inews.co.uk inews.co.uk

If we were serious about infection control in a pandemic this bit would be top priority and it's something Labour should be pushing this weekend. It won't happen, but it would be a way of Labour putting a bit of distance between them and the scum:

Thousands more students are about to needlessly move across the country over the weekend. This needs to be stopped. At the same time, a strategy must be developed to allow students to safely leave campuses and be released from accommodation contracts – I suspect that universities’ need to guarantee accommodation revenue is one of the main reasons they have been reluctant to put safety first.
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