Undercover policing enquiry

[SpookyFrank]

Two reasons, firstly, they are necessary, secondly, in general they are not corrupt.

Just scroll two or three posts back up this thread to the stuff about coppers legally harassing someone they've already been abusing for years and tell me again about people being necessary and not corrupt.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Just scroll two or three posts back up this thread to the stuff about coppers legally harassing someone they've already been abusing for years and tell me again about people being necessary and not corrupt.

Are you seriously suggesting that all police officers are corrupt? I can understand those who have been outed as scum who abused their position, and the senior officers who instructed them to do so, trying to wriggle out of their wrongdoing, it's human nature, but, you cannot reasonably extrapolate that to 'all police officers are corrupt', because they are not.

I have no great fondness for the police, but do recognise the need for them.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Are you seriously suggesting that all police officers are corrupt?

If you wear the uniform and obey the commands of a corrupt insitution then you are corrupt.

 

[DaveCinzano]

I can understand those who have been outed as scum who abused their position, and the senior officers who instructed them to do so...

Two things: most of those exposed thus far have been rank-and-file officers working at the coal face of the undercover programmes. Without wishing to suggest that they are not wholly culpable for their own actions, they were, whilst in their undercover deployments, essentially only obeying orders.

Yet the controlling minds - those who planned, conceived, funded, initiated, propagated, managed, perpetuated, and hid the programmes - have, by and large, escaped illumination. Under this category we may include a number of mid-level and senior officers (still serving and retired) who rose through the ranks having served stints undercover earlier on in their careers - that is, officers who were wholly inculcated in the programmes. For these, the only obeying orders mantra rings ever more hollow.

However, not all of the controlling minds were police officers. Almost all relevant Home Office documents relating to the programmes - funding, direction, policy reviews, reports on targets etc - have not been located. Almost no civil servants have been clearly identified with the programmes. Bar being able to identify the relevant Home Secretary (for example) in place at the time each of the units were set up, there has been no meaningful probe of the political aspects of the the programmes. No attempt to bring to account the political masters, their civil service mandarins, nor the senior police managers.

 

[Pickman's model]

Are you seriously suggesting that all police officers are corrupt? I can understand those who have been outed as scum who abused their position, and the senior officers who instructed them to do so, trying to wriggle out of their wrongdoing, it's human nature, but, you cannot reasonably extrapolate that to 'all police officers are corrupt', because they are not.

I have no great fondness for the police, but do recognise the need for them.

Yeh, not all of them. Must be a couple of upright plod

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yeh, not all of them. Must be a couple of upright plod

There's always a couple of good apples in the barrel, making life hard for the rotten apples.

 

[DaveCinzano]

...Under this category we may include a number of mid-level and senior officers (still serving and retired) who rose through the ranks having served stints undercover earlier on in their careers - that is, officers who were wholly inculcated in the programmes. For these, the only obeying orders mantra rings ever more hollow.

As an aside to this sub-category - which includes the likes of Roger Pearce and Bob Lambert - there are a number of mid- and high-level officers (still serving or retired), some of them who have built public profiles based around their unimpeachable values, honesty, ethical standpoints etc, who have questions to answer. These include those who have, for example, hidden their earlier service as infiltrators in the undercover programmes, and those who have in some way covered for undercover infiltrators, or else facilitated or made use of intelligence gleaned through the programmes yet been less than candid about it.

If one intended to toss around a few names at random - completely without any evidence, you understand - one might speculate about the possibility that those of well known faces such as Brian Paddick or John Grieve might land in the hat.

 

[Sasaferrato]

There's always a couple of good apples in the barrel, making life hard for the rotten apples.

I've known quite a number of pl

If you wear the uniform and obey the commands of a corrupt insitution then you are corrupt.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Graun story up on it now:

Woman deceived by police spy refuses to pay Met legal bill

 

[teqniq]

 

[hash tag]

Helen was only on radio 4 yesterday lunchtime talking about this, sadly kept short. Police being Bastards is one thing but the way she and others were deceived was just beyond belief.

 

[teqniq]

Quelle surprise

 

[hash tag]

For anyone else, that would be a crime and they would named, shamed and punished...but this is a cop, acting under the cover of the state

 

[DaveCinzano]

It's worth pointing out that the application for anonymity (restriction order) was made by MPS, with the MPS Directorate of Legal Services acting as N7's lawyers. So it's interesting to consider that the medical report backing this up was provided by East Anglia-based shrink George Christopher Fox.

https://www.ucpi.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/20170904-restriction-order-HN7.pdf

https://www.ucpi.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/HN7-Open-application-for-restriction-order.pdf

 

[teqniq]

Weasel words, I feel to protect someone who may be at risk whilst ensuring that those above are protected too. Always. I see this George Christopher Fox bloke is connected to the Priory Group, for what it's worth.

 

[SpookyFrank]

It's worth pointing out that the application for anonymity (restriction order) was made by MPS, with the MPS Directorate of Legal Services acting as N7's lawyers. So it's interesting to consider that the medical report backing this up was provided by East Anglia-based shrink George Christopher Fox.

https://www.ucpi.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/20170904-restriction-order-HN7.pdf

https://www.ucpi.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/HN7-Open-application-for-restriction-order.pdf

Funny time to start giving a fuck about psychological harm.

 

[likesfish]

If they had been inflitrating actual terrorist /anarchist orginisations that were commiting actual crimes involving violence Murder or even millions of pounds of property damage you could probably justify this shit.


But they werent nobody who was targeted was dangerous and niether was anyone with any connection to those targeted was dangerous no weapons were seized no illegal drugs seized no scary conspriacy uncovered or doomsday plan foiled in the nick of time.
Nobody targeted by this entire bullshit its was a complete waste of time the fact this bullshit went on for years and achieved fuck all the managers should be carpeted for wasting valuable resources for paranoia.

Most of these groups I could have " inflitrated" by buying a beer and asking what they were doing next weekend or picking up a copy of schnews

 

[Pickman's model]

It's worth pointing out that the application for anonymity (restriction order) was made by MPS, with the MPS Directorate of Legal Services acting as N7's lawyers. So it's interesting to consider that the medical report backing this up was provided by East Anglia-based shrink George Christopher Fox.

https://www.ucpi.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/20170904-restriction-order-HN7.pdf

https://www.ucpi.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/HN7-Open-application-for-restriction-order.pdf

from prof chris fox's website

 

[hash tag]

Speaking specifically about Helen Steel (& Dave Morris) I can't see that they actually did anything wrong!
I know Mac's took them to court but didn't mac's one point out of 8?

 

[teqniq]

If they had been inflitrating actual terrorist /anarchist orginisations that were commiting actual crimes involving violence Murder or even millions of pounds of property damage you could probably justify this shit.


But they werent nobody who was targeted was dangerous and niether was anyone with any connection to those targeted was dangerous no weapons were seized no illegal drugs seized no scary conspriacy uncovered or doomsday plan foiled in the nick of time.
Nobody targeted by this entire bullshit its was a complete waste of time the fact this bullshit went on for years and achieved fuck all the managers should be carpeted for wasting valuable resources for paranoia.

Most of these groups I could have " inflitrated" by buying a beer and asking what they were doing next weekend or picking up a copy of schnews

It's called political policing. As you quite rightly point out its a waste of time and resources. However anything that is perceived as a threat to the established order must be countered at all costs.

 

[hash tag]

Mac's money speaks volumes, another reason they should be closed, they exert too much political pressure over ordinary decent folk, local authorities Etc.

 

[chilango]

But they werent nobody who was targeted was dangerous and niether was anyone with any connection to those targeted was dangerous no weapons were seized no illegal drugs seized no scary conspriacy uncovered or doomsday plan foiled in the nick of time.

One might almost think that changing this state of affairs was the exact reason why some of them were infiltrated...

Y'know. Job creation and that.

 

[DaveCinzano]

I know Mac's took them to court but didn't mac's one point out of 8?

During this period McDonald's had threatened a lot of people with legal action - political activists, journalists, media outlets, all sorts.

It's simply that in all cases except two of five London Greenpeace campaigners (on whom McDonald's had spied upon for nearly two years using at least two separate sets of private investigators, whilst also liaising with Special Branch, which was, as we now know, had been infiltrating the group for several years also), that is, Helen Steel and Dave Morris, those threatened by McDonald's chose the pragmatic course of action of offering a meaningless ‘apology’.

The verdict, after many, many years of proceedings and evidence, was at best a pyrrhic victory for McDonald's and its multi-billion dollar legal team; and despite having to represent themselves, unfunded, Steel and Morris still one on several points.

McLibel: verdict

 

[likesfish]

Microsoft are smarter than macdonalds when they discovered the brighton unemployed centre for various reasons was using unlicened software a certain well known lefty walked off with all the licences claiming they were his personal property.
Discovered threating the assets of the directors or whatever we were assets consisted of about £75 and we were more than up for a day or two in court decided chucking a few freebies at us to go away was a better plan

 

[ViolentPanda]

from prof chris fox's website

View attachment 115240

So for the first 7 years of his career, he worked for the military. Interesting.

 

[likesfish]

Not really he got the military to pay for his medical training

 

[ViolentPanda]

Not really he got the military to pay for his medical training

Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that he worked in an environment where even psychiatrists did what the bosses wanted. I suspect he's still doing that, just for private fees rather than the queen's shilling.

 

[dylanredefined]

Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that he worked in an environment where even psychiatrists did what the bosses wanted. I suspect he's still doing that, just for private fees rather than the queen's shilling.

No, they don't even the most backward thinking nco tends to listen to a doctor when they are doing medical stuff.
The problem is getting the sick treatment in a culture of man the fuck up being the answer to everything too many make physical or mental problems worse by ignoring it or self-treating.

 

[teqniq]

Women who had relationships with police spies criticise inquiry

Women who were deceived into sexual relationships with undercover police officers have called for an urgent meeting with the home secretary over fears the official public inquiry lacks openness and fails to recognise claims of institutional sexism within the Metropolitan police.

In an open letter to Amber Rudd, 13 women who had relationships with men they did not know were undercover officers criticise delays and raise concerns over the suitability of the new chair of the undercover policing inquiry, Sir John Mitting QC....

 

[1%er]

The jolly squad go undercover