UK goes full speed ahead on shale gas fracking.

[spacemonkey]

Fracking is being pursued because it is a trick with smoke and mirrors to convince us that we will not see mass deaths due to fuel shortages in the near future.
Wait until Soylent Green hits the shelves before we start panicking.
Destroy the earth's surface and poison all our soil and water to prop up a defunct and dying economic system.

Any constructive points on how we should keep the lights on over the next 10 years, or have you washed your hands of the whole thing?

 

[snadge]

I will also add that gas turbine stations have a life span of 12-18 yrs and a spate of them were built 10-15 years ago, the more gas that is used to produce power, the more expensive it becomes for ordinary consumers, also keep in mind that we as a country still have trillions of tonnes of coal in the ground still.

 

[Crispy]

Any constructive points on how we should keep the lights on over the next 10 years.

Start planning for it 10 years ago, when everything about future gas supplies was well known

 

[Sprocket.]

Any constructive points on how we should keep the lights on over the next 10 years, or have you washed your hands of the whole thing?

Ha ha I am an anarchist what do you expect
I'll be dead in 5 years!

 

[spacemonkey]

Start planning for it 10 years ago, when everything about future gas supplies was well known

Unless we can invent a time machine, there's not much point in mulling over what should've been done. From my earlier post, there are still options that add up (at least over a decade time scale). What I really want to get to bottom is, by opposing fracking and we essentially dooming ourselves to a massive increase in coal usage? Nobody seems to give a shit about reducing demand, but without it, nuclear and renewables don't have a hope of fulfilling our needs.

 

[snadge]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_capture_and_storage

They were going to build a 3,500 Mw CCS coal fired station at Blyth but the green fruitloops put paid to it, now RWE are going to build a Nuclear instead.

 

[spacemonkey]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_capture_and_storage

They were going to build a 3,500 Mw CCS coal fired station at Blyth but the green fruitloops put paid to it, now RWE are going to build a Nuclear instead.

RWE aren't building any new nuclear.

 

[camouflage]

Any constructive points on how we should keep the lights on over the next 10 years, or have you washed your hands of the whole thing?

I reckon we should struggle on with coal-fire for burst because it's cheap and delivers the goods while we embark on a massive government spending program to close the gap with sustainable energy capacity (mop up a lot of unemployment and help exports while were at it) so we can then roll off coal-fire etc in the next 20 years, and also 'en-biggen' research into turning wind-power etc into a form you can pour in a tank... or algae-fuels etc, but not agri-fuels obviously.

I know this is the kind of out-there far-fetched idea that only a wild-eyed fanatical social-democrats like me would consider. In the harsh light of reality, if the Market can't do it... then it is impossible obviously.

 

[snadge]

RWE aren't building any new nuclear.

Strange, that is not the information I have, they are planning to run all their coal fired stations on full bore for the next 2-5 years and only do breakdown repair work, emission fines will be paid as they are exactly the same if the emissions are 1ppm over or if they sell the electricity that is used for the ESP and FGDs and just let the boiler spew direct to atmosphere.


BTW I work for the main company that designs and builds emission control systems on fossil fuel/Biomass stations.

 

[spacemonkey]

Strange, that is not the information I have, they are planning to run all their coal fired stations on full bore for the next 2-5 years and only do breakdown repair work, emission fines will be paid as they are exactly the same if the emissions are 1ppm over or if they sell the electricity that is used for the ESP and FGDs and just let the boiler spew direct to atmosphere.


BTW I work for the main company that designs and builds emission control systems on fossil fuel/Biomass stations.

They were part of the Horizon group, but sold it off to Hitachi in 2012. I've not seen anything since that suggests they're building new nukes, happy to be corrected on that though.

 

[spacemonkey]

I reckon we should struggle on with coal-fire for burst because it's cheap and delivers the goods while we embark on a massive government spending program to close the gap with sustainable energy capacity (mop up a lot of unemployment and help exports while were at it) so we can then roll off coal-fire etc in the next 20 years, and also 'en-biggen' research into turning wind-power etc into a form you can pour in a tank... or algae-fuels etc, but not agri-fuels obviously.

I know this is the kind of out-there far-fetched idea that only a wild-eyed fanatical social-democrats like me would consider. In the harsh light of reality, if the Market can't do it... then it is impossible obviously.

Most renewable energy projects aren't that labour intensive. The severn barrage would do the job though.

 

[camouflage]

Most renewable energy projects aren't that labour intensive. The severn barrage would do the job though.

The scale of spending would be so great there would definitely be multiplier effects in terms of employment. Probably cause the price of aluminium and other related products to go up too actually... would want to be careful about that. Would make a great channel for stimulus spending imo, such is the scale of the task.

 

[spacemonkey]

The scale of spending would be so great there would definitely be multiplier effects in terms of employment. Probably cause the price of aluminium and other related products to go up too actually... would want to be careful about that. Would make a great channel for stimulus spending imo, such is the scale of the task.

Something like this?

To create 48 kWh per day (we use 120kWh per day in the UK) of offshore wind per person would require 60 million tons of concrete and steel – one ton per person. Annual world steel production is about 1200 million tons, which is 0.2 tons per person in the world. During the second world war, American shipyards built 2751 Liberty ships, each containing 7000 tons of steel – that’s a total of 19 million tons of steel, or 0.1 tons per American. So the building of 60 million tons of wind turbines is not off the scale of achievability; but don’t kid yourself into thinking that it’s easy. Making this many windmills is as big a feat as building the Liberty ships http://www.withouthotair.com/c10/page_62.shtml

 

[rover07]

The 60 million tons of concrete and steel is over 20 years, the lifetime of the wind turbines. So an extra 0.05 tons per year. Or roughly back to the level of UK steel and concrete production during the 1990's.

David McKay deliberately obscures the scale of production by comparing 20 years production in the UK to one year's global production.

Then just in case the reader sees through this, he compares 1940's technology to the present day.

But then as he frequently tells us, he is only interested in the maths.

 

[coley]

The scale of spending would be so great there would definitely be multiplier effects in terms of employment. Probably cause the price of aluminium and other related products to go up too actually... would want to be careful about that. Would make a great channel for stimulus spending imo, such is the scale of the task.

A much better investment than HS2,much more in the way of job creation also.

 

[Dr Jon]

Anyone seen this?

http://www.gaslandthemovie.com

 

[spacemonkey]

The 60 million tons of concrete and steel is over 20 years, the lifetime of the wind turbines. So an extra 0.05 tons per year. Or roughly back to the level of UK steel and concrete production during the 1990's.

David McKay deliberately obscures the scale of production by comparing 20 years production in the UK to one year's global production.

Then just in case the reader sees through this, he compares 1940's technology to the present day.

But then as he frequently tells us, he is only interested in the maths.

Shit, I remember that being pointed out now.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Protesters getting nicked at Balcombe & charged under S 241 Trade Union & Labour Relations Act 92.

What the fucking fuck???

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Sussex plod doing what Sussex plod do all too well - playing dirty.

Hope it wasn't too painful mate!

 

[Dr Jon]

A Halt on Polish Shale Gas and Leaky Tar Sands.

 

[ddraig]

Protesters getting nicked at Balcombe & charged under S 241 Trade Union & Labour Relations Act 92.

What the fucking fuck???

Sussex police said five people were arrested for causing danger to road users, and nine under trade union law for attempting to stop drivers and other workers from accessing the site. Police said the arrests were peaceful, but activists said there were struggles.

wtf indeed!

straight in there the cunts
day 2
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jul/26/anti-fracking-activists-arrested-sussex

 

[Mr.Bishie]

I'm puzzled. How the fuck can you charge "protesters" under that act?

 

[ddraig]

not heard of it being used before

"stopping honest men going about their lawful right to earn a living my honour"

 

[Treacle Toes]

http://frack-off.org.uk/latest-news-from-the-great-gas-gala/

 

[free spirit]

I will also add that gas turbine stations have a life span of 12-18 yrs and a spate of them were built 10-15 years ago, the more gas that is used to produce power, the more expensive it becomes for ordinary consumers, also keep in mind that we as a country still have trillions of tonnes of coal in the ground still.

I thought they were supposed to have a design life of around 40 years - I know a few of the old ones are being shut, but thought that was because they were too inefficient to keep running.

I can see that they might well need a fairly major service / overhaul after 15-20 years mind.

I do know that the UK have tended to buy these units on price though, so buy cheap buy twice etc.

I've only got indirect knowledge of this side of things though, but it would really change the financial comparisons used to favour gas over renewables if they really did have the sort of working lifespan you give.

 

[free spirit]

Strange, that is not the information I have, they are planning to run all their coal fired stations on full bore for the next 2-5 years and only do breakdown repair work, emission fines will be paid as they are exactly the same if the emissions are 1ppm over or if they sell the electricity that is used for the ESP and FGDs and just let the boiler spew direct to atmosphere.


BTW I work for the main company that designs and builds emission control systems on fossil fuel/Biomass stations.

can't they just run it in excess air anyway?

Thought that was the usual work around used, just wack up the fans... or has the environment agency got wise to that?

 

[equationgirl]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_capture_and_storage

They were going to build a 3,500 Mw CCS coal fired station at Blyth but the green fruitloops put paid to it, now RWE are going to build a Nuclear instead.

That page isn't up to date in parts.

 

[ddraig]

more on the trade union stuff, not much

None of those charged lives in the village. They have all been dealt with under Section 241 of the Trade Union Labour Relations Act for attempting to stop drivers and other workers from accessing the site.
Superintendent Steve Whitton from Sussex police said: "Protesters are being asked to clear entrances to allow access to the site and where they have refused following repeated requests we have arrested them."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environme...sussex-fracking-protests?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487​

​

this is Section 241 apparently​

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/52/section/241​

241

Intimidation or annoyance by violence or otherwise.​

​

(1) A person commits an offence who, with a view to compelling another person to abstain from doing or to do any act which that person has a legal right to do or abstain from doing, wrongfully and without legal authority—​

​

(a) uses violence to or intimidates that person or his [F1spouse or civil partner]F1 or children, or injures his property,​

​

(b) persistently follows that person about from place to place,​

​

(c) hides any tools, clothes or other property owned or used by that person, or deprives him of or hinders him in the use thereof,​

​

(d) watches or besets the house or other place where that person resides, works, carries on business or happens to be, or the approach to any such house or place, or​

​

(e) follows that person with two or more other persons in a disorderly manner in or through any street or road.​

​

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or both.​

(3) F2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .​

​

 

[sleaterkinney]

also keep in mind that we as a country still have trillions of tonnes of coal in the ground still.

And a third of power generation runs off it, I'm surprised it's that high.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Balcombe MP Francis Maude appointed Lord Browne, a director of Cuadrilla Resource Holdings Ltd, to the Cabinet Office in June 2010.

http://gasdrillinginbalcombe.wordpr...p-appointed-cuadrilla-director-to-government/