Trouble at Antic Pubs

[alcopop]

London pub company Antic has gone into administration.

The 12-strong group runs properties across the capital, including Balham Bowls Club and the White Hart in Stoke Newington.

Chantrey Vellacott is handing the administration, but said it was too early to comment on the case.

The administration is not thought to affect Antic London, the parent company, which continues to trade as usual.

It will continue to run 24 pubs, which include Dogstar Brixton, East Dulwich Tavern and Westow House in Crystal Palace.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Sun and Doves ok then (being a London one)?

 

[marty21]

blimey - they run my local, The Clapton Hart, only been open about 6 months - always busy in there.

 

[Maggot]

Link?

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Link?

http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2013/01/...affect-the-dogstar-and-the-sun-of-camberwell/

 

[Maggot]

http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2013/01/...affect-the-dogstar-and-the-sun-of-camberwell/

I meant a proper link, not some dodgy 2 bit website.

 

[Mapped]

They've been doing up The Chequers in Walthamstow for ages. They haven't even opened yet. I can't tell from their twitter if they're affected https://twitter.com/TheChequersE17

@anticpubs seems to have disappeared off twitter

 

[Sirena]

They have rejuvenated Balham and Tooting pub socialising with the Antelope, Tooting Tramshed and Wheatsheaf (all Tooting) and Blithe Spirit and Balham Bowls Club (Balham). In addition, they have been granted permission to create a square of local boutique shops and a farmers market just off Tooting Broadway.

Say it isn't so...

 

[CH1]

Can I refer people to my earlier comments in another thread.
Antic and its various affiliates may run vibrant and edgy pubs - but its business results seem to be edgy as well. Not that it is easy to run a steady pubco business these days.
For the record the latest financial information I was able to obtain on Antic Ltd on the web was: Antic Limited have total assets of £0 plus total liabilities of £3,377,975. They owe £2,707,897 to creditors and are due £1,106,837 from trade debtors. As of their last financial statement, they had £45,708 in cash reserves. Their book value is £-515,614, and the value of their shareholders' fund is £-508,857.
The winding up petition (from HMRC - implying they owe Tax/NI or VAT or both) can be seen at the London Gazette site here.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Can I refer people to my earlier comments in another thread.
Antic and its various affiliates may run vibrant and edgy pubs - but its business results seem to be edgy as well. Not that it is easy to run a steady pubco business these days.
For the record the latest financial information I was able to obtain on Antic Ltd on the web was: Antic Limited have total assets of £0 plus total liabilities of £3,377,975. They owe £2,707,897 to creditors and are due £1,106,837 from trade debtors. As of their last financial statement, they had £45,708 in cash reserves. Their book value is £-515,614, and the value of their shareholders' fund is £-508,857.
The winding up petition (from HMRC - implying they owe Tax/NI or VAT or both) can be seen at the London Gazette site here.

oh dear!

Good work CH1.

The fact they appear to be split into two companies - Antic Ltd and Antic London - I wonder if they're letting the unprofitable bit go bust??

Very surprised they have £0 assets - unless it's some sort of tax scam. I thought they owned most of their pubs. Maybe they just lease/rent them (which is generally unsustainable in the long term imo.)

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

oh dear!

Good work CH1.

The fact they appear to be split into two companies - Antic Ltd and Antic London - I wonder if they're letting the unprofitable bit go bust??

Very surprised they have £0 assets - unless it's some sort of tax scam. I thought they owned most of their pubs. Maybe they just lease/rent them (which is generally unsustainable in the long term imo.)

I wonder if the parent company owns the pubs and leases them to the subsidiary. Fold the company, write off the debts, keep the assets. I've no idea how that would work legally speaking but something along those lines would be my guess.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

I wonder if the parent company owns the pubs and leases them to the subsidiary. Fold the company, write off the debts, keep the assets. I've no idea how that would work legally speaking but something along those lines would be my guess.

Yes, that's actually not an unusual set-up from what I've read in Private Eye and other places..... just fuck off owing lots of people lots of money.

Football clubs do it regularly!

 

[OpalFruit]

I wonder if the opening of the Effra Social Club or whatever it's called will go ahead? The old Conservative Club next to the Hoot.
Platts and Paynes in Streatham is OK. Brilliant sausage rolls. David Harewood from Homeland drinks in there.
I'm not a fan of the EDT.

 

[editor]

The Dogstar must be making an absolute mint these days.

 

[Sirena]

Every pub they have in Tooting and Balham is successful and must be absolutely creaming it at the weekends.

Unless they've overstretched and bought too much too quickly, they must be skanking somehow.

 

[Frumious B.]

I wonder if their problems are linked to the construction work at Clifton Mansions. That must make a hell of a dent in your cashflow.

 

[CH1]

Based on information in the Morning Advertiser I did some more research.
Its more complicated that I first thought. Looks like some individual bars are Limited Liability Partnerships - registered under their own company number. eg The Harmony Herne Hill Llp (no. OC350749).
Atlantic Dogstar Limited is a normal company - net worth 31st December 2010 quoted as £261,205
Antic have a venture capital investor called Downing Corporate Finance who invested £1,575,000 in the Westow Limited, £1,785,000 in East Dulwich Tavern Limited and £840,000 in Atlantic Dogstar Limited in 2009.
More recently: £2.73 million was invested by the Downing Pub EIS Fund and other Downing funds into Pabulum Pubs this year to fund the purchase of two freehold sites in London: £1.78 million in July 2012 for Blithe Spirit in Balham; and £0.95 million in November 2012 for Effra Conservative Club in Brixton. Both sites will be refurbished, re‐launched and managed by Antic, an established and experienced Downing investment partner.
So why did Antic Limited fall out with the Inland Revenue?

 

[Badgers]

The Dogstar must be making an absolute mint these days.

I was staggered by their NYE bar take.

 

[CH1]

I wonder if their problems are linked to the construction work at Clifton Mansions. That must make a hell of a dent in your cashflow.

Clifton Mansions is Lexadon not Antic.
Antic have or had an interest in the building on the Ritzy side of Clifton Mansions - formerly Brixton Cycles, then "The Real McKoy" (prosecuted by Lambeth Trading Standards for selling fake designer gear in 2006). An Antic company got planning permission for a bar there with 8 flats (on appeal) in 2005, but more recently in 2010 their detailed plans were again refused by Lambeth Planning.
In 2012 Lexadon made a much more detailed application for 9 flats above, raising the height an extra storey to match Clifton Mansions, for which planning permission was granted on 18th December 2012.
So who owns the site I'm not sure - but I guess Lexadon get the flats and maybe Antic will run (another) bar.

 

[leanderman]

Based on information in the Morning Advertiser I did some more research.
Its more complicated that I first thought. Looks like some individual bars are Limited Liability Partnerships - registered under their own company number. eg The Harmony Herne Hill Llp (no. OC350749).
Atlantic Dogstar Limited is a normal company - net worth 31st December 2010 quoted as £261,205
Antic have a venture capital investor called Downing Corporate Finance who invested £1,575,000 in the Westow Limited, £1,785,000 in East Dulwich Tavern Limited and £840,000 in Atlantic Dogstar Limited in 2009.
More recently: £2.73 million was invested by the Downing Pub EIS Fund and other Downing funds into Pabulum Pubs this year to fund the purchase of two freehold sites in London: £1.78 million in July 2012 for Blithe Spirit in Balham; and £0.95 million in November 2012 for Effra Conservative Club in Brixton. Both sites will be refurbished, re‐launched and managed by Antic, an established and experienced Downing investment partner.
So why did Antic Limited fall out with the Inland Revenue?

Does that mean my new local (Effra Social) may yet go ahead?

 

[oryx]

The Dogstar must be making an absolute mint these days.

They run a lot of pubs in SE London (Jam Circus, Brockley - currently out of use due to a fire; The Ravensbourne in Ladywell/Lewisham; The Catford Bridge Tavern; The Sylvan Post in Forest Hill and possibly others). They are apparently opening one in Deptford.

The pubs are extremely popular and it's quite easy to see why - they have a laid-back vibe with real ales on tap, decent music played at a good level, and IMHE good food and friendly, helpful bar staff.Their quirky, shabby chic verging on 'obviously picked up at cheapo house clearance sales' recycled fittings are appealing in a cosy, recycled sense, appealing to the inner Green in a lot of people.

I've been impressed with Jam Circus, Ravensbourne, Antelope and just last Sunday, the Catford Bridge.

But as Sirena has pointed out, have they expanded too quickly?

I don't know about their involvement in Clifton Mansions (ETA - just seen CH1's post) but there are ahem, interesting debates on one of my local websites about the company as a whole (whose structures appear labyrinthine, though I suspect that's not an unusual business model) buying and leaving derelict a prime local site which apparently had a planning app for a Tesco turned down by Lewisham.

and thrice

 

[CH1]

Antic have a venture capital investor called Downing Corporate Finance

From "Downing Investment Update":
Management
Antic specialises in the acquisition, development and management of quirky, stylish public houses in and around London, in areas popular with young commuters. Antic has been trading since 1999 and has grown to manage approximately 30 pubs. Downing has worked with Antic since September 2009, and these two investments (Blithe Spirit in Balham and Effra Conservative Club in Brixton) represent the 14th and 15th Downing‐backed acquisitions within the Antic estate. To date, every Downing‐backed and Antic‐operated site has seen real year on year growth in both profits and sales.

 

[CH1]

Does that mean my new local (Effra Social) may yet go ahead?

Apparently so.

 

[artyfarty]

I lived in a flat owned by the same outfit a few years ago, the property side of the business went bust but the pubs kept going, it's the same guy behind the whole thing. Allegedly. Bought on the cheap, done up on the cheap, passed on.
They'll come and go, they'll sell off what they need to, they'll go bust when they need to, they'll pop up in another guise, all done with holding companies and companies hiding behind other companies. Allegedly. My guess is that they'll build up the business and then sell it in a few years time, debts and all to a larger, national chain, pocket the millions and sod off. Allegedly.

 

[leanderman]

Exactly

 

[Curly German]

How long will it be before "Antic London" buy back all the assets of "Antic Ltd"?

 

[artyfarty]

The barman in an Antic pub I was in last night admitted the reason they had no draught beer was due to financial issues following the above problems. He did say that they expect they would be alright in the long run as they were one of the profitable pubs....

 

[equationgirl]

How long will it be before "Antic London" buy back all the assets of "Antic Ltd"?

Not long - I bet there's already an offer i front of the administrators.

But not keeping the payments to the HMRC? Bad move that never works.