_Russ_
Never not Knowingly Misunderstood
Far too reasonable and considered for here
Transgender hate crimes recorded by police go up 81%
- Thread starter editor
- Start date
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
it's neither
the final section advocates psychiatric pathologisation of Gender Incongruence , which the WHO has (finally) deciied is grossly inappropriate in ICD 11)
it also parrots the lies of the Genital cranks about the evidence base and the same old bullshit aobut the necessity of Conversion therapy having to fail to 'protect the child from thesmelves' before providing the known effective treatment which has been safely used for well over 30 years in this exact presentation .
you cannot do a double blind trial where one arm is a known effective treatment ( the 30 + years of effective , safe and well researched treatment modalities such as puberty suppression and apprirate to gender identity hormonal treatment ) and the other is is de facto and in many places de jure torture ( conversion therapy )
this is before consideration of the mis representation of paediatric prescribing off label as being something which is peculiar to Gender Medicicne, rather than , in fact , the norm for many drugs used in paediatric practise
The last couple of paragraphs with the clinician are especially disingenuous. They seem to acknowledge that some kids genuinely benefit from treatment (as does Cass), although they seem to imagine that trans people are caused by some kind of societal problem rather than just being a natural part of human diversity. But if some kids are helped by this treatment then how many? Only around 100 a year were being proscribed puberty blockers. Most trans kids never got near GIDS and of those that did most did not have any physical treatment.
So if some kids are genuinely helped by treatment then how many should there be? Why is 100 too much, or was it just the wrong 100? Where is the evidence they were getting it wrong with some of these 100 kids, and what about those who would have benefited from treatment but didn't receive it. Surely this is a problem if you genuinely support treatment in some cases but just question the diagnostic practice.
To be clear Cass did not find any evidence of harm from the use of gender affirming treatment for young people. She did not find any evidence that young people were being rushed into treatment. And she did not find any evidence of significant or worrying numbers of people desisting or regretting treatment. And this is in a report which is clearly biased and demands an unattainable level of evidence in favour of treatment yet uses the lowest quality studies, unexpert opinion, and even just vague supposition (some say, it has been suggested etc) to make assertions opposing clinical interventions.
So if some kids are genuinely helped by treatment then how many should there be? Why is 100 too much, or was it just the wrong 100? Where is the evidence they were getting it wrong with some of these 100 kids, and what about those who would have benefited from treatment but didn't receive it. Surely this is a problem if you genuinely support treatment in some cases but just question the diagnostic practice.
To be clear Cass did not find any evidence of harm from the use of gender affirming treatment for young people. She did not find any evidence that young people were being rushed into treatment. And she did not find any evidence of significant or worrying numbers of people desisting or regretting treatment. And this is in a report which is clearly biased and demands an unattainable level of evidence in favour of treatment yet uses the lowest quality studies, unexpert opinion, and even just vague supposition (some say, it has been suggested etc) to make assertions opposing clinical interventions.
Balbi
Hey, Dean Yager!
One of the key people in the York Review which assessed the strength or weakness of evidence was Dr Tilly Langton part of a Gender Exploratory Therapy (this is conversion therapy with a new name) group who lobbied then equalities Minister Kemi Badenoch in 2021 to ensure that a ban on conversion therapy wouldn't cover their field.
One of the few protocols the methodology and assessment found suitable by the York Review was the Finnish one, influenced by Dr Rita Kaltiala.
Dr Kaltiala has been a strong opponent of gender affirming care, even testifying in Florida to support it's trans healthcare ban.
Dr Kaltiala is also the reason Dr Cass met with one of the Catholic lobbyists who was a part of writing that trans healthcare ban - as in she recommended they meet.
Dr Kaltiala was also on the advisory board of the Cass Review.
I think you can see how hard is to have trust in a report that has key figures in it that declared no conflict of interest when reviewing guidance protocols (in Dr Langton's case) or have been part of a process that outright banned healthcare for trans people, not just trans youth (in Dr Kaltiala's case) and actively sought to connect the review to people deeply involved on that process.
I will also note here that when Cass published her interim report in 2022 she then had to release a subsequent letter to the media saying "can you stop reporting this so badly please it's not good".
In 2024 they've had to put up a defence of the report, based on the way it's been reported by the UK media once again. Interesting to note they didn't find that puberty blockers were harmful, didn't find social transition was harmful, and yet if you read the news, you'd think otherwise: Final report – FAQs – Cass Review
One of the few protocols the methodology and assessment found suitable by the York Review was the Finnish one, influenced by Dr Rita Kaltiala.
Dr Kaltiala has been a strong opponent of gender affirming care, even testifying in Florida to support it's trans healthcare ban.
Dr Kaltiala is also the reason Dr Cass met with one of the Catholic lobbyists who was a part of writing that trans healthcare ban - as in she recommended they meet.
Dr Kaltiala was also on the advisory board of the Cass Review.
I think you can see how hard is to have trust in a report that has key figures in it that declared no conflict of interest when reviewing guidance protocols (in Dr Langton's case) or have been part of a process that outright banned healthcare for trans people, not just trans youth (in Dr Kaltiala's case) and actively sought to connect the review to people deeply involved on that process.
I will also note here that when Cass published her interim report in 2022 she then had to release a subsequent letter to the media saying "can you stop reporting this so badly please it's not good".
In 2024 they've had to put up a defence of the report, based on the way it's been reported by the UK media once again. Interesting to note they didn't find that puberty blockers were harmful, didn't find social transition was harmful, and yet if you read the news, you'd think otherwise: Final report – FAQs – Cass Review
Balbi
Hey, Dean Yager!
MD has either deliberately or not deliberately fallen into the "referrals to GIDS" trap here.
A referral to GIDS didn't mean you got puberty blockers or hormones. Given the waiting lists it meant you didn't get anything for most young people. But the number of referrals when placed next to talk about prescriptions gives the impression thousands of young people were being prescribed them.
Of the 3000+ patients actually seen by GIDS between 2018 and 2022, about 667 received either puberty blockers and/or hormones.
27% were referred to endocrinology, but 7% were never prescribed anything. That data is in the Cass Report Appendix 8.
Given that GIDS has said between 2012 and 2022 about 1000 patients were referred to endocrinology and prescribed puberty blockers and/or hormones - that means in the six years before 2018, the number was under 400.
So a thousand patients in decade. One hundred a year. Who had to talk to a GP, get a referral, sit on the waiting list, have at least 6 or 7 appointments at the clinic before being referred to endocrinology (at which point you're one of 27% out of those referred) and then be prescribed treatment, at which point you're one of 20%.
I'm always slightly amused at the cries of "look how many of these patients go on to be trans because they took puberty blockers" when the process shows that each step from GP through to endocrinology assessment really filters out those who don't need it down to a small nunber of those who do.
The fact that of the 3000+ patients seen by GIDS, and the 800-odd who were eventually referred to endo, fewer than 10 were found to have detransitioned after referral to endocrinology.
The regret rate for trans healthcare is vanishingly small folks.
Edit: I also note that even MD recognises that it's impossible to get a randomised control trial of trans healthcare together, due to the obvious inability to keep it blinded and the massive massive ethical problems.
But then handwaves that away by saying "Gathering robust evidence is hard. But we should have tried harder" which..... buddy, cohort studies are the only available evidence and many of them got dismissed.
The GIDS service itself was not fit for purpose because it was a segregated single service provider care pathway that couldn't cope with the demand.
Last edited:
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
It was especially bad when they had Nick Cohen writing for them under the pseudonym "Ratbiter" - he would frame his anti-trans columns* as being all about women's rights, and the more women came forward about Cohen's harassment and assaults, the more loudly he banged that particular drum, until Private Eye couldn't ignore the allegations any longer.
He's now sort-of admitted that he may have behaved inappropriately - without being specific - blaming alcohol, and Guardian News Media eventually (after several years) apologised to one of his victims at least. (When he was at the Observer/Guardian, young women new to the office would be warned about him and his nickname was "the Octopus".)
But the Eye, who'd normally be all over a story about such behaviour - didn't say a word even after quietly dropping him.
*It was him who had it in for Jones.
Balbi
Hey, Dean Yager!
Oh shit sorry One More Thing.
This is more bullshit. There are no private providers prescribing puberty blockers in the UK, that was reported here: Ban on children’s puberty blockers to be enforced in private sector in England
That article is 20 days old, so MD should have known that or at least bothered to find out.
However it gets worse! At the bottom of that article is this nugget about Sue Evans trying to stop private providers offering hormones to patients aged 16+ who are able to medically consent to treatment as adults.
Her lawyer? It's Paul Conrathe of the Bell v Tavistock case and Gillick is not fit for purpose and numerous anti abortion cases.
Its the same damn people every damn time.
This is more bullshit. There are no private providers prescribing puberty blockers in the UK, that was reported here: Ban on children’s puberty blockers to be enforced in private sector in England
That article is 20 days old, so MD should have known that or at least bothered to find out.
However it gets worse! At the bottom of that article is this nugget about Sue Evans trying to stop private providers offering hormones to patients aged 16+ who are able to medically consent to treatment as adults.
Her lawyer? It's Paul Conrathe of the Bell v Tavistock case and Gillick is not fit for purpose and numerous anti abortion cases.
Its the same damn people every damn time.
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
Conranthe is retainer by the christo-fascists to do anything that might undermine Gillick
Balbi
Hey, Dean Yager!
If you'd like a very NZ perspective on this, and discussion of how things are different here but still affected by what happens in the UK - I was on a podcast last night with Jen Shields of PATHA, Angela and Kyle.
www.1of200.nz
1/200 S2E73 - The Cass Review, Trans Healthcare and NZ — 1/200
We’re joined by co-hosts Angela and John to speak with Jen Shields, the President of PATHA (Professional Association for Transgender Health Aotearoa). We discuss the recent Cass Review in the UK, what impact it has had overseas, and what we’re likely to see happen in NZ as we approach the relea
www.1of200.nz
krtek a houby
Against all gods
Balbi
Hey, Dean Yager!
Here comes Badenoch for the Equalities Act 2010 and it's protection of trans people in their identified gender: Badenoch claims girls developed UTIs due to lack of single-sex toilets at school
Badenoch claims "girls", it was one girl and school itself explain the new block was designed with students and parent input, with safety in mind;
So nothing to do with trans or NB people at all.
Badenoch still refers to Cass to support her argument and the exact wording they're using here is basically inviting every anti trans group in the country to yell as loudly as possible that the protections granted by the Equalities Act 2010 are incorrect.
This will.mean the targeting of LGBTQI friendly organisations, support groups and others who promote inclusion. It also directly targets the Equalities Act which does cover trans people, either with a GRC or without one.
Basically they're confident they've knocked out trans healthcare for youth, and are going after the legal underpinning of trans equality - which is what the anti trans movement have always wanted because despite all their wailing and yelling, the Equalities Act 2010 has always been the thing they couldn't get past.
Got to vaguely hope Badenoch can't progress this due to the election and that Starmer and Labour on their current withdraw from any trans rights position don't pick this up and continue it like the cowardly shitheads they are.
If say someone like Rosie Duffield got the job, it's Annaliese Dodd in the brief at the minute, it'd be indistinguishable from Kemi Badenoch.
Another example of the pushback on trans existenxe in public life based on absolutely nothing, but serving the long held agenda of the anti trans movement.
Badenoch claims "girls", it was one girl and school itself explain the new block was designed with students and parent input, with safety in mind;
So nothing to do with trans or NB people at all.
Badenoch still refers to Cass to support her argument and the exact wording they're using here is basically inviting every anti trans group in the country to yell as loudly as possible that the protections granted by the Equalities Act 2010 are incorrect.
This will.mean the targeting of LGBTQI friendly organisations, support groups and others who promote inclusion. It also directly targets the Equalities Act which does cover trans people, either with a GRC or without one.
Basically they're confident they've knocked out trans healthcare for youth, and are going after the legal underpinning of trans equality - which is what the anti trans movement have always wanted because despite all their wailing and yelling, the Equalities Act 2010 has always been the thing they couldn't get past.
Got to vaguely hope Badenoch can't progress this due to the election and that Starmer and Labour on their current withdraw from any trans rights position don't pick this up and continue it like the cowardly shitheads they are.
If say someone like Rosie Duffield got the job, it's Annaliese Dodd in the brief at the minute, it'd be indistinguishable from Kemi Badenoch.
Another example of the pushback on trans existenxe in public life based on absolutely nothing, but serving the long held agenda of the anti trans movement.
Balbi
Hey, Dean Yager!
Also Daniel Radcliffe remains a very, very decent human being: Daniel Radcliffe says rupture with JK Rowling over trans rights is ‘really sad’
The outrage at the Potter actors really reveals the conservatism inherent in the gender critical movement. I doubt Rowling had much involvement in casting the films but even if she did presumably they were chosen as the best kids for the job rather than some kind of benevolent gesture. And they did a good job of breathing life into pretty pedestrian characters and helped make her a tonne of money. She should be grateful to them.
The idea that they owe her anything, let alone some weird lifelong fealty which means they should never disagree with anything she says, just because she was sort of their boss years ago, is fucking ridiculous. These aren't terfs, they don't have a radical bone in their bodies. They love power.
The idea that they owe her anything, let alone some weird lifelong fealty which means they should never disagree with anything she says, just because she was sort of their boss years ago, is fucking ridiculous. These aren't terfs, they don't have a radical bone in their bodies. They love power.
krtek a houby
Against all gods
Sorry, who loves what kind of power?
Balbi
Hey, Dean Yager!
A little good news? Well the emails being shitheads aren't but the Mayor of Carterton, who was an NZF MP (social conservative, economically uhhh not quite liberal?) in Parliament at the same time as Whaea Georgina (who was also Mayor of Carterton) goes both barrels on the shitheads.
www.rnz.co.nz
Deputy mayor ‘disgusted’ by response to Georgina Beyer sculpture
Carterton's deputy mayor is "disappointed" and "disgusted" at the response to a proposal to erect a memorial sculpture of the late Georgina Beyer.
www.rnz.co.nz
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
Fascists and transphobes ; although increasingly the seperation between the two is negligible
Balbi
Hey, Dean Yager!
Article here in the Guardian about DIY HRT: Concerns as cross-sex hormones available online for just £11 a month
You'll note not a single trans person quoted within, and they could only get a quote from a parent of someone who detransitioned (but not the actual person) mostly because the Guardian likely didn't approach any but also because word got round this article was in the mix and the trans community don't trust the Guardian at all.
Good to see the trans safety network involved though, and it highlights that DIY was a result of the huge waiting times for gender healthcare - you know, the thing that Cass identified as not safe or sustainable in 2022. A lot of adults use DIY prescription as well because getting hormone treatment on the NHS is not easy, and not a short process either apparently.
However the result of the final Cass report is likely less access which likely means more DIY. Articles like this are going "wooooo we should ban this noowwww" which again, denying a minority essential healthcare for ???? reasons.
You'll note not a single trans person quoted within, and they could only get a quote from a parent of someone who detransitioned (but not the actual person) mostly because the Guardian likely didn't approach any but also because word got round this article was in the mix and the trans community don't trust the Guardian at all.
Good to see the trans safety network involved though, and it highlights that DIY was a result of the huge waiting times for gender healthcare - you know, the thing that Cass identified as not safe or sustainable in 2022. A lot of adults use DIY prescription as well because getting hormone treatment on the NHS is not easy, and not a short process either apparently.
However the result of the final Cass report is likely less access which likely means more DIY. Articles like this are going "wooooo we should ban this noowwww" which again, denying a minority essential healthcare for ???? reasons.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
The Guardian unfortunately has quite a few transphobes on their payroll it seems. Rachel Cooke being the most prominent I can think of.
Balbi
Hey, Dean Yager!
Kath Viner the editor is sympathetic to transphobia, and Sonia Sodha's weekly Observer op ed about transphobic talking points has almost become a meme on social media, so there's a group of them even now Suzanne Moore and Hadley "Woody Allen Innocence Project" Freedom have moved onto more comfortable right wing outlets.
Someone even crowbarred it into an interview with Billy Bragg the other day.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I thought Bragg was broadly supportive of trans rights?
Balbi
Hey, Dean Yager!
He is and the interviewer asks him about it but then we get some pretty poor editorialising from the interviewer. Tim Adams needs to sort his fucking life out imo.
"I haven't seen evidence" buddy you obviously haven't looked at how bad it gets on anti trans twitter. "Untested certainties" excuse me you dipshit they have been tested and used for decades, you're just chatting absolute dogshit.
"There is no suggestion that Rowling and Bindel have any sympathy with those groups" when you've got Rowling calling trans folks rape rights activists and Bindel has 100% worked with US Gender Critical feminists who have supported trans healthcare bans alongside the Heritage Foundation etc
It's just so utterly dismissive of the idea that being pro trans rights is a legitimate position, while absolutely absolving Bindel and Rowling for the absolute dogshit they say.
Even when he gets sent tweets, it's dismissed as well it doesn't come from Rowling or Bindel like holy fucking shit dude if you can't see how they're all part of the deal what the fuck are you doing. The way it's equally dismissive of criticisms of Cass, "all rigorously refuted" are they, wow would be nice for evidence there.
The only link in the entire section is to the authors own work on what he calls a cult, a trans supportive charity group.
It's a wild turn for an interview with a musician in his sixties, which becomes three paragraphs of excusing British transphobia.
Balbi
Hey, Dean Yager!
Meanwhile someone asked York Uni how come their registration of methodology was different from the methodology they actually employed, so why they changed that for different parts of their study: Methods Change Raises New Questions of Bias in Cass Review — Assigned
Their response was, we changed to a different methodology for each bit.
Question is, why wasn't that discussed in the paper. When you deviate from what you preregister you need to explain it.
Otherwise it looks like you've changed your methodology because you don't like the results you'd get from your original one.
But it still rolls on. You've got Badenoch going after toilets in schools, Tories and Labour after trans people in hospital and anything to do with Trans people getting the Cass Said Weak Evidence slapped on it. It's wild.
Their response was, we changed to a different methodology for each bit.
Question is, why wasn't that discussed in the paper. When you deviate from what you preregister you need to explain it.
Otherwise it looks like you've changed your methodology because you don't like the results you'd get from your original one.
But it still rolls on. You've got Badenoch going after toilets in schools, Tories and Labour after trans people in hospital and anything to do with Trans people getting the Cass Said Weak Evidence slapped on it. It's wild.
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
he is and upset the TERFs with his subtle re -work of the lyrices to Sexualitiy that acknowledged none binary identity
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Sonia Sodha claims her bigotry is all about women's rights, but showed how disingenuous she is on that front when she continued to champion Nick Cohen.
Hadley Freeman, feminist, well she finally said something about Cohen's assaults and harassment of women, including former colleagues, once the New York Times had picked up the issue.
Unfortunately, what she did say was a lie. This was from late May 2023:
Hadley Freeeman [at]HadleyFreeman
I'm v glad women's complaints are now taken seriously. But Nick Cohen
has apologised and lost his job for things he did when he was - as he says
- drinking, so today's story feels more like another "look how backward
the UK is compared to the US!!!" from NYT which is v hmmm
I'm v glad women's complaints are now taken seriously. But Nick Cohen
has apologised and lost his job for things he did when he was - as he says
- drinking, so today's story feels more like another "look how backward
the UK is compared to the US!!!" from NYT which is v hmmm
Lucy Siegle, a victim of Cohen when she was a young intern at the Guardian/Observer, responded:
lucy siegle [at]lucysiegle
He apologised (he didn’t) and he lost his job (he didn’t tho did he?) is
such a disgusting take I can’t even….STOP USING HIS FRAMING!!!
He apologised (he didn’t) and he lost his job (he didn’t tho did he?) is
such a disgusting take I can’t even….STOP USING HIS FRAMING!!!
link to Lucy Siegle's tweet from 30/05/2023
(Freeman deleted her awful post.)
Time and time again, the line that these people's anti-trans bigotry is all about "women's rights" is shown to be horse hooey.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Hadley Freeman flounced because they weren't terfy enough IIRC. And then, with dignity and principles held high, went straight off to work for Murdoch.
Similar threads
