Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yes, I await my copy of the 2020 who's who which contains almost everyone on The List
Tory Death Spiral
- Thread starter Kaka Tim
- Start date
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Probably behind paywall and somewhat speculative
They're never getting the numbers for that are they? They'd need all the Labour MPs. Not happening.
andysays
Love and solidarity
"Tory rebels threaten to join Lib Dems to thwart Boris Johnson
Conservative MPs are gearing up for mass defections in response to the leadership contender’s threats to force through a no-deal Brexit.
As many as six Conservative MPs are due to hold talks with the Liberal Democrats this week with the aim of derailing Brexit and Boris Johnson’s premiership.
Sources close to the talks say the discussions will include the possibility of a vote of no confidence in Johnson or even the option of Tory MPs defecting to the anti-Brexit party.
If only two were to switch, it would immediately deny Boris Johnson a parliamentary majority if, as expected, he is named Conservative leader on Tuesday.
Sir Ed Davey, who served as Lib Dem energy minister in the coalition cabinet with leading Tory remainers, is understood to have been approached by Conservatives desperate to stop Johnson.
Sources close to the Lib Dem leadership hopeful said: “Boris Johnson’s threat to close down parliament to force through a no-deal Brexit was the final straw for a number of Conservative MPs.
“With the sitting chancellor Philip Hammond talking openly about voting to bring down his own government if it pursues a hard Brexit, the growing sense is of numerous Conservative MPs now willing to put country before party. It is uncertain yet exactly where this new level of cross-party co-operation will go but it is clear several Conservative MPs are seriously considering their positions.”
The disclosure comes as David Gauke, the justice secretary, reveals that he will resign from the cabinet on Wednesday because he cannot serve under Johnson while he is pursuing a no-deal Brexit.
In an interview with The Sunday Times, he rules out defecting to the Lib Dems or voting down the government, but signals that he would join a sit-in of MPs if Johnson took the “outrageous” decision to prorogue parliament.
Rory Stewart, the international development secretary, and up to a dozen ministers are expected to quit at the same time as Gauke after prime minister’s questions, while Hammond is expected to resign alone as early as tomorrow.
Margot James, the former culture minister, who resigned on Thursday to support efforts to stop parliament being prorogued, is thought to be among a small group of Tory MPs who have discussed the idea of defecting to the Lib Dems.
Last night she said it was not something she was considering “at the moment”, adding: “There are a very good group of us who will work together in the interests of the country and I want to stay working with this group in the Conservative Party as I do think there’s a chance of getting somewhere.”
Yesterday there were claims a powerful cross-party group of MPs and peers is plotting to install a “government of national unity” if Johnson tries to force through a no-deal Brexit. They are considering a vote of no confidence in the autumn, which, if he lost, would give the rebels 14 days to install a new remain-supporting prime minister without the need for a general election. A Tory peer familiar with the plans said Sir Keir Starmer, shadow Brexit secretary, and Hammond are among names in the frame to lead a government of national unity.
Last week Johnson reached out to members of the “Gaukward squad” of remainer MPs amid fears he could be toppled within the first 24 hours of his premiership. He arranged meetings with MPs opposed to no-deal, including Sam Gyimah, as rumours circulated that they will seek to bring his government down immediately he enters Downing Street.
Up to 30 Tory peers could resign the whip if Johnson seeks to force through no-deal. One said: “Boris is great company but he would not make a good PM, he is absolutely the opposite of what this country needs.”
Today Baroness Verma makes a veiled attack on Johnson, accused of Islamophobia after saying Muslim women wearing burkas “look like letter boxes”. Writing for The Sunday Times website, the Conservative peer says politicians are ready to “turn a blind eye to the affront, fear and uncertainty their words carry”.
She writes: “I have seen first-hand how ugly and increasingly nasty behaviour is destroying the core principles of the Conservative Party I knew and joined.”
As she cautions the next prime minister against a lurch to the right, Baroness Verma concludes: “We must be a party for all.”
The government has offered to provide Boris Johnson with furniture for his No 10 flat after he was made homeless by his separation from his wife.
Johnson, 55, is widely predicted to beat Jeremy Hunt to become prime minister on Wednesday. He is then expected to move into No 10 with his girlfriend, Carrie Symonds, 31.
Meanwhile, Philip Hammond, the chancellor and opponent of a no-deal Brexit, packed his bags yesterday as he prepared to leave 11 Downing Street."
Conservative MPs are gearing up for mass defections in response to the leadership contender’s threats to force through a no-deal Brexit.
As many as six Conservative MPs are due to hold talks with the Liberal Democrats this week with the aim of derailing Brexit and Boris Johnson’s premiership.
Sources close to the talks say the discussions will include the possibility of a vote of no confidence in Johnson or even the option of Tory MPs defecting to the anti-Brexit party.
If only two were to switch, it would immediately deny Boris Johnson a parliamentary majority if, as expected, he is named Conservative leader on Tuesday.
Sir Ed Davey, who served as Lib Dem energy minister in the coalition cabinet with leading Tory remainers, is understood to have been approached by Conservatives desperate to stop Johnson.
Sources close to the Lib Dem leadership hopeful said: “Boris Johnson’s threat to close down parliament to force through a no-deal Brexit was the final straw for a number of Conservative MPs.
“With the sitting chancellor Philip Hammond talking openly about voting to bring down his own government if it pursues a hard Brexit, the growing sense is of numerous Conservative MPs now willing to put country before party. It is uncertain yet exactly where this new level of cross-party co-operation will go but it is clear several Conservative MPs are seriously considering their positions.”
The disclosure comes as David Gauke, the justice secretary, reveals that he will resign from the cabinet on Wednesday because he cannot serve under Johnson while he is pursuing a no-deal Brexit.
In an interview with The Sunday Times, he rules out defecting to the Lib Dems or voting down the government, but signals that he would join a sit-in of MPs if Johnson took the “outrageous” decision to prorogue parliament.
Rory Stewart, the international development secretary, and up to a dozen ministers are expected to quit at the same time as Gauke after prime minister’s questions, while Hammond is expected to resign alone as early as tomorrow.
Margot James, the former culture minister, who resigned on Thursday to support efforts to stop parliament being prorogued, is thought to be among a small group of Tory MPs who have discussed the idea of defecting to the Lib Dems.
Last night she said it was not something she was considering “at the moment”, adding: “There are a very good group of us who will work together in the interests of the country and I want to stay working with this group in the Conservative Party as I do think there’s a chance of getting somewhere.”
Yesterday there were claims a powerful cross-party group of MPs and peers is plotting to install a “government of national unity” if Johnson tries to force through a no-deal Brexit. They are considering a vote of no confidence in the autumn, which, if he lost, would give the rebels 14 days to install a new remain-supporting prime minister without the need for a general election. A Tory peer familiar with the plans said Sir Keir Starmer, shadow Brexit secretary, and Hammond are among names in the frame to lead a government of national unity.
Last week Johnson reached out to members of the “Gaukward squad” of remainer MPs amid fears he could be toppled within the first 24 hours of his premiership. He arranged meetings with MPs opposed to no-deal, including Sam Gyimah, as rumours circulated that they will seek to bring his government down immediately he enters Downing Street.
Up to 30 Tory peers could resign the whip if Johnson seeks to force through no-deal. One said: “Boris is great company but he would not make a good PM, he is absolutely the opposite of what this country needs.”
Today Baroness Verma makes a veiled attack on Johnson, accused of Islamophobia after saying Muslim women wearing burkas “look like letter boxes”. Writing for The Sunday Times website, the Conservative peer says politicians are ready to “turn a blind eye to the affront, fear and uncertainty their words carry”.
She writes: “I have seen first-hand how ugly and increasingly nasty behaviour is destroying the core principles of the Conservative Party I knew and joined.”
As she cautions the next prime minister against a lurch to the right, Baroness Verma concludes: “We must be a party for all.”
The government has offered to provide Boris Johnson with furniture for his No 10 flat after he was made homeless by his separation from his wife.
Johnson, 55, is widely predicted to beat Jeremy Hunt to become prime minister on Wednesday. He is then expected to move into No 10 with his girlfriend, Carrie Symonds, 31.
Meanwhile, Philip Hammond, the chancellor and opponent of a no-deal Brexit, packed his bags yesterday as he prepared to leave 11 Downing Street."
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Probably behind paywall and somewhat speculative
So Stewart is willing to leave his party to prevent a no deal brexit but not willing to vote for an amendment which could actually prevent Johnson forcing through a no deal brexit?
Mkay.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
I predict these rumblings of rebellion within the tories will come to nothing. I'm sure some of them are uncomfortable with the idea of prime minister Johnson, a no deal brexit or both but not I suspect as uncomfortable as they'd be with the idea of putting themselves out of a cushy job where showing up is optional and you get subsidised booze and hot and cold running expenses.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Generally yes, (like the spineless GoP), but there are almost certainly a few who mean what they say...and, given the Parliamentary arithmetic (post-Brecon?) it would only take a few carrying through with what they're threatening to achieve a VoNC.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Probably why they'll get whatever backhanders they're really angling for and then pipe down again.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Dunno. There are definitely a group of tory mps who are dead set against no deal, and other who agree but are keeping their heads down.
But against Johnsons power of patronage (limited by his weak starting position) and fear of the members - there will be considerable pressure from manufacturing, services industries, the city of london, the civil service and the public to stop no deal - and that will grow as it becomes closer to reality.
But against Johnsons power of patronage (limited by his weak starting position) and fear of the members - there will be considerable pressure from manufacturing, services industries, the city of london, the civil service and the public to stop no deal - and that will grow as it becomes closer to reality.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Cushy to most people, maybe, but there are opportunities for Tory ex-MPs who like earning lots for working a day a month whenever convenient. I doubt the likes of Hammond and Stewart will be suffering much anxiety over how they would make ends meet.
Puddy_Tat
🐈⬛
have the limp dems / tinge said what they would do? after the last vonc they said they wouldn't vote with labour on a vonc again.
would the election of a 'no deal' PM change their mind?
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
It's increasingly in the LibDems interests to vote with Labour on a VoNC, they're clearly enjoying a major revival at the moment and stand to come out of a GE with a lot more than their dozen current seats. The Chuka's are a different kettle of fish since pretty much all of them are going to end up in the dole queue come the day afterwards. Their talk of putting the country first and doing the right thing aside, I am ever more convinced that they are a self-serving bunch and will do what they think is best for them personally.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Really not sure tbh.
My suspicion is that there are genuinely pockets within the right party of capital that remember who their paymasters are. I also suspect it will suit Johnson to have elements that can be blamed for stopping him doing 'what the people wanted'.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
If you're correct then my faith is restored, there was time when once had a politician had been bought they had the decency to stay bought, this shower can't even be relied on to do that.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Not wanting to go all conspiroid but how likely is it that there are elements of theatre at play? Not grand conspiracy, but some degree of collusion or at least conversation between Johnson camp and the more business remain types.
That polling a few weeks back showed Tory members weren't arsed if no deal brexit cost the GFA or Scotland or the Tory party but bricked it at threat of a Corbyn govt. There's been a lot of speculation that Johnson's rhetoric doesn't match his intentions. Threat of loss of Tory MPs = Corbyn as PM = enough acceptance of a rewashed May deal for Johnson to get it through (possibly minus DUP - fewer Tory rebels plus some labour/ex labour defectors) without too many local association deselections etc and without facing polls. Few casualties but deal through.
Maybe tories really are this much of a car crash tho tbf
That polling a few weeks back showed Tory members weren't arsed if no deal brexit cost the GFA or Scotland or the Tory party but bricked it at threat of a Corbyn govt. There's been a lot of speculation that Johnson's rhetoric doesn't match his intentions. Threat of loss of Tory MPs = Corbyn as PM = enough acceptance of a rewashed May deal for Johnson to get it through (possibly minus DUP - fewer Tory rebels plus some labour/ex labour defectors) without too many local association deselections etc and without facing polls. Few casualties but deal through.
Maybe tories really are this much of a car crash tho tbf
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
yes - johnson is all bluster and bullshit - but he has explicitly and repeatedly stated "we will leave on oct 31" and that the backstop must be removed. May's deal - with the backstop in place- is the only deal available. He cant re-present it and hope nobody will notice.
If Johnson did that his own party would crucify him. I don't see he has any more chance of getting it through than may did. The tory brexiteers will not support it - especially as their own membership and the brexit party will be screaming blue murder.
If there is a cunning plan - it will be johnson delivers a no deal, than the UK rejoins a week later - and he can honestly say that he kept his word.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
I wouldn't be surprised if he did just re-present it tbh, or similarly try and bluff it out. Just because it won't work doesn't mean he won't try, he's never been held to account for anything before so I could easily see him there doing his 'well you know, hmm, yes, quite' thing come the end of October.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Oh definitely - but it would finish and tarnish his reputation for all time with the tory faithful (they'll forgive - or applaud - his sex pesting, shameless lieing, racism, serial incompetence, bullying and rampant narcissism - but not if he betrays their brexit)
Thats why i think he might try and go out in a blaze of glory and blame the "traitors" for the cluster fuck.
Quite likely to call a GE to bring about no deal whilst ramping up the xenophobia, nationalism and "traitor" narrative. Even if he loses (and that is not a given) - it would still be very damaging an dangerous.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Yes, the enemies of the people within his own party and parliament will be an essential component of Johnson's excuses and offer to the come at the November General Election.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
That's my guess too, or at least that there won't be an effective rebellion. The genuine uncertainty as to what Johnson will do with regard to brexit is ramping up their venality and self interest to even higher levels. This doesn't look like a solid block who are about to act decisively.
TBH, I suspect there might be a couple of MPs who join the libs or resign the tory whip. Trouble is, that only makes a theoretical majority against Johnson and/or a no deal brexit. Getting all the Labour MPs lined up and through the lobby will be more difficult.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
What I was getting at really though - if there is a Tory way out by making it rehashed May deal or Corbyn, take your pick
ruffneck23
front left
Tory MP charged with sexual assault against two women
Have we had this yet ?
does this bring this down to a 1 person majority after the 1 Aug by election ?
Have we had this yet ?
does this bring this down to a 1 person majority after the 1 Aug by election ?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Yes.
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