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Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech'

There was a court process. The ordinary one for cases of this kind.
But would I approve of it whoever the guilty person was? One judge gets to decide. Aamer Anwar got off on the say-so of one person. It'd be a touching faith in our legal system to say that the process is a fair one.

The gagging order on The Guardian in the Trifigura story was legal. They weren't allowed to even mention that there was one, or that it was being debated in Parliament. That was a court process too.

It involves some mental somersaults to back a bourgeois court system on one occasion and be against it on others. It's not impossible, I think I can manage it, but it's difficult to explain to people.
 
But would I approve of it whoever the guilty person was? One judge gets to decide. Aamer Anwar got off on the say-so of one person. It'd be a touching faith in our legal system to say that the process is a fair one.

The gagging order on The Guardian in the Trifigura story was legal. They weren't allowed to even mention that there was one, or that it was being debated in Parliament. That was a court process too.

It involves some mental somersaults to back a bourgeois court system on one occasion and be against it on others. It's not impossible, I think I can manage it, but it's difficult to explain to people.

I agree. But that's not what you claimed, initially. You said "locked up without a court process". He wasn't; he was subject to the usual process in that situation. To imply otherwise is to play into his narrative of martyrdom. We shouldn't confuse criticism of the process generally with the specifics of its application in his case. Pointing out that the lie that bourgeois court treated him differently need not imply any support for that court.
 
I agree. But that's not what you claimed, initially. You said "locked up without a court process". He wasn't; he was subject to the usual process in that situation. To imply otherwise is to play into his narrative of martyrdom. We shouldn't confuse criticism of the process generally with the specifics of its application in his case. Pointing out that the lie that bourgeois court treated him differently need not imply any support for that court.

I see what you mean. There was 'a court process'. I should have said something like 'what people would recognise as a trial with all the trimmings'.
 
It involves some mental somersaults to back a bourgeois court system on one occasion and be against it on others. It's not impossible, I think I can manage it, but it's difficult to explain to people.
I don't think you need to back it just recognise sometimes it jails innocent people and sometimes it doesn't.
 
Its only a viable position if the aim is to tread water.After that its lets hope it all dies down , the problem goes away and we can get back to bash the fash. Problem is ,to quote Hunter S Thompson, 'once the toothpaste has been squeezed out its kinda hard to get back in'

I more meant in comparison to the current efforts but yeah I agree.
 
I do tbh. Anything focused on TR is going to draw mostly to all fash. The FLA connection is a distraction - it’s not like the first couple of FLA marches (which were definitely not all or even mostly far right, though had a lot of far right speakers). A key point made by a lot of people was “we don’t want to turn into the EDL mk 2” and now it has, the constituency has changed as you can see by the numbers.
OK - I take this back to an extent. I think I underestimated how much TR's arrest and "martyrdom" would bring back a good chunk of the FLA who'd been drifting away as it got more political. It's a straightforward non-party message; TR has been locked up for telling the truth about paedos by the corrupt and biased establishment who don't care about our kids. It's also definitely got money and organisation going into promoting and organising it. The same people who did the "free speech" thing a few weeks ago in the same place were running things, and there were lots of placards and stickers made by peoplescharter dot org who I'm not familiar with but will be doing some research on. Generation Identity were there though not many of them.

The consequence of this is that there were a _lot_ more people than at the "free speech" thing, due to the FLA turnout - 10-20K easily I'd guess. Counter-protests: a few hundred SUTR folk at the Parliament Square end kept well away behind barricades by the cops.

One thing that occurred to me several times was that you're going to get nowhere here with an argument about TR being in contempt of court and on a suspended sentence and reporting restrictions blah blah. People think the system is corrupt and they don't give a shit about any of that. A lot were openly hostile to the police, shouting abuse in their faces, and at Downing Street apparently some were throwing things to the extent that the organisers had to go on the PA and try to get them to stop. ("This is how they want to portray you, don't give them the excuse!")
 
Seriously organised this lot.
There's definitely a lot more proper organising going on now as well as collaboration between groups. It's streets ahead of the old EDL stuff. I think it's quite specific to some headline events though... it seems that there are still plenty of marches and demos that are just thrown together and are a mess.
 
OK - I take this back to an extent. I think I underestimated how much TR's arrest and "martyrdom" would bring back a good chunk of the FLA who'd been drifting away as it got more political. It's a straightforward non-party message; TR has been locked up for telling the truth about paedos by the corrupt and biased establishment who don't care about our kids. It's also definitely got money and organisation going into promoting and organising it. The same people who did the "free speech" thing a few weeks ago in the same place were running things, and there were lots of placards and stickers made by peoplescharter dot org who I'm not familiar with but will be doing some research on. Generation Identity were there though not many of them.

The consequence of this is that there were a _lot_ more people than at the "free speech" thing, due to the FLA turnout - 10-20K easily I'd guess. Counter-protests: a few hundred SUTR folk at the Parliament Square end kept well away behind barricades by the cops.

One thing that occurred to me several times was that you're going to get nowhere here with an argument about TR being in contempt of court and on a suspended sentence and reporting restrictions blah blah. People think the system is corrupt and they don't give a shit about any of that. A lot were openly hostile to the police, shouting abuse in their faces, and at Downing Street apparently some were throwing things to the extent that the organisers had to go on the PA and try to get them to stop. ("This is how they want to portray you, don't give them the excuse!")

Indeed, though of course it perhaps should be pointed out that almost all of the targets they've been riled up about - paedos, "the corrupt system", the cops, Muslims, "free speech", Corbyn, immigrants etc - are the ones that the papers that most of the country reads (and still to a very large extent believes) and politicians those papers support have been banging on about for years. The likes of Hopkins, Farage, Robinson and the rest have been given column inches for god knows how long, they've been national news, they've made their living coming up with nonsense and they've been given platforms with which to spread their message in ways that are not challenged. These are not people who have been on the outside of anything.
 
Friends saying there are lots of young people and families in attendance.
Some, yeah. Not so much younger kids as teenagers I'd say; older people as well. This is fairly consistent with my experience of the FLA march I was at.

Oh and somebody hired a bus which was a bit odd. I only saw it as I was leaving - it was driving down towards Trafalgar Square, with people on the top waving paedos/free tommy banners.
 
Pretty sure People's Charter was set up several years ago as quite a progressive thing. Perhaps it got ran into the ground and subesequently hijacked.
 
Has anyone mentioned that maybe Tommy and supporters want the trial to fail? Then they can go 'waaaaahhhh, state letting muslim paedos go free' and have an excuse to kick off? :hmm:
 
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