Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
cheers!
Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech'
- Thread starter Cloo
- Start date
For some reason, a number of anti-fascist social media accounts seem to have been telling people the Free Tommy protests on Saturday (24 August) in central London have been cancelled — they haven't! A few weeks ago Richard Inman put a video out saying the plan was to do decentralised static protests all over central London. Then over the weekend Inman puts another video out saying SYL has decided from his prison cell to cancel the big rally they were going to have (which was never announced) but that people should still hold decentralised static protests all over central London and people should contact him/Tommy's team if they wanted to know where to hold them. He's just put out another video telling people to go to a protest outside the BBC at 1pm on Saturday, organised by a group called TRUE PATRIOTS and reiterating the call for decentralised protests. Basically, there are going to be SYL fans in small groups all over central London on Saturday, nothing which was going to happen has been cancelled.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
That sounds extremely similar to the last time where it was also said there were going to decentralised protests, but everyone just turned up at the BBC in the end. The "lack of organisation" factor mentioned before seems to be continuing.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I think they are in disarray tbh . Danny Tommo is out of his depth , poor turnouts , the unity bid fell on deaf ears, the anti Islam/ pro Israel issue( ie which issue makes the money) , loyalty to Tommy over Inmans ambition to build an anti Islam movement . It’s a confusing fragile mess which they could well have issues sorting out even when SYL gets out . Inman posted up an interesting contribution last year to the future of the DFLA ( after their disappointing London demo ) which sets out his preferred direction .
The Morning Star and Stand Up to Racism don't want people to oppose the Tommy Robinson supporters on the streets on Saturday.
Fascists ‘in disarray’ after cancelling ‘Tommy Robinson’ demo
Fascists ‘in disarray’ after cancelling ‘Tommy Robinson’ demo
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
back in the auld days i bet the likes of julie waterson would have said 'our demonstration is going ahead to celebrate this victory'
Treacle Toes
Time
Well that is a central theme in the British counter-jihad movement, these are largely people who see themselves as being second class citizens.Do you reckon they consider themselves as 'underdogs'?
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Thing is, if you look at where a big chunk of support comes from, they are (know you know this, just making the point). Because of class not because they're white ofc, but drivers to far right rooted in poverty, social alienation and being the 'underdog'
Oh look, she who understands my words better than I is misrepresenting them again.
Oh yeah definitely, although I think there's also a geographical split in the UK. The counter-jihad movement outside of the south east is exactly how you describe, but around London and the south east it's wealthier, people in it own property, have small businesses etc and there can be more middle class types involved than you'd get elsewhere.
Treacle Toes
Time
That's the biggest challenge though isn't it...because as long as that kind of 'underdog patriotism' is wrapped around and dripping in prejudice and racist dogma there's no way to promote lasting solidarity.
I don't think it's that complicated, all we need to do is build working class power. Solidarity comes from struggle as people fight along side each other against a common enemy.
Is this how you feel about eg Palestinians (which was what I was getting at in my original point which you have since skewed to suit your agenda)?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
this seems to push the petty bourgeoisie, so important in classical fascism, out the way.
Treacle Toes
Time
Yes, I know. I have had a fair amount of experience and success with this through community activism and development activities.
There were though some who couldn't hold their 'prejudices' down and created issues and others who outright refused to get involved because 'those others' etc. These are folk who still benefited from our collective successes even though they refused to get involved iyswim.
So, I know the theory, i've had experience...my interest is in how such polarised thinking and reactions can be overcome, possible 'solutions' if you will. I suppose one is just to trust that they will naturally come around as confidence in what is achievable becomes clearer?
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Plenty of racists, far right types, and fascists there too obv. I was referring to active support for counter jihad type movements, the people who turn up to edl/'tommy' demos etc
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
soz i thought your 'drivers to far right' a general comment rather than c-j
I know exactly what you mean and I've also seen arguments about individual's prejudices tear groups apart in the past. From my experience, I'd say it needs to be made abundantly clear at the start of any group or campaign that there is no space for oppressive language or behaviour within the group/campaign, which makes it easier to talk to people who get involved and start saying or doing the kind of things they shouldn't. Those conversations need to be 'calling people in', rather than 'calling people out', there was/is a tendency among some on the left where people see catching others at saying something problematic as an opportunity to make themselves look good, rather than a problem we collectively need to resolve. All of that said, I think it's a bigger problem that the left just isn't organising in a lot of working class communities around issues which impact those places. If more people were taking part in struggles which mattered to them, we'd see more people developing the way they interact with each other.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Not that I’m In a position to know or anything but I’d deffo imagine that almost the entirety of rozzers in SYL’s home force area thought he was a mortgage fraud commiting horrible cowardly cunt who hid behind his family.
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FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Demo today was a bit underwhelming - I suspect general confusion as to whether it had been called off was partly to blame, but also just lack of interest. Maybe about 200 folk on the steps of the church by the BBC - half of them marched up there from Trafalgar Square, baffling tourists and occasionally trying to get into the road but being pushed back by the police. Cops did not let them get any closer to the BBC. Antis across the road in similar numbers but they didn't even bother closing the road. Horses and TSG around, a few arrests while I was there and a lot of smoke thrown (at one point the Tommy side managed to drop a smoke bomb right in their own faces - not sure quite what they were thinking there).
A lot of people peeled off to the All Bar One which is clearly the new Wetherspoons.
A lot of people peeled off to the All Bar One which is clearly the new Wetherspoons.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
There's a certain irony in chanting "whose streets our streets" when, well, you are not actually on the street, you're on the pavement because there's maybe a hundred of you and you're not even getting in the way of the tourists.
the thread here generally sees the far right street demos as ideologically diffuse.
there is no 'movement,' manifesto or key figure keeping people focused apart from robinson but when he is in prison they fall apart.
is there any charismatic leadership figure to replace him? godard? danny tomo? useless, clueless fuckbins. ann marie waters? ukip? farage? britian 1st? too divisive and not enough street action.
the football lads managed a massive turnout but then fell apart as the leadership were incapable, inexperienced, and headed straight for the petty cash tin which split them in 2. they then got progressively smaller with no end game whatsoever.
like the EDL, these demos are becoming an excuse for a day out, drinking, and hassle with plod, that is, like england games.
there is no 'movement,' manifesto or key figure keeping people focused apart from robinson but when he is in prison they fall apart.
is there any charismatic leadership figure to replace him? godard? danny tomo? useless, clueless fuckbins. ann marie waters? ukip? farage? britian 1st? too divisive and not enough street action.
the football lads managed a massive turnout but then fell apart as the leadership were incapable, inexperienced, and headed straight for the petty cash tin which split them in 2. they then got progressively smaller with no end game whatsoever.
like the EDL, these demos are becoming an excuse for a day out, drinking, and hassle with plod, that is, like england games.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
There is an interesting wee anecdote to Julie Watersons demo 'tactics'. Back in October 1993 when I was involved in then 'Away team', I was in Lo0ndon in the week running up top the 'Unity' demo in Welling, the one that really went tits up and World In Action did their hatchet job on. We were in a meeting a few nights before along with other 'stewards' and other people prepared to help organise the March. Also there was Waterson, Claire Dissington and as I remember (it was near 26 years ago) Rahul Patel. Waterson started whipping up her pals dotted throughout the meeting including some kids, literally schoolkids, calling us 'dads army' and thugs, blah blah blah.... When it became clear that Waterson believed the march would spontaneously steward itself she was asked about her plans to counter the police. She said that the demo should sit down and force the police to withdraw. She then went on, remarkably, to argue that if we sat down then the sight on national news of the police beating Leon Greenman (a man who survived Auschwitz) on the ground would be bad for the police. She literally wanted this poor bloke to be battered on national tv as propaganda, almost unbelievable frankly.... And whilst I am not keen on talking ill of the dead her comments that night were fucking disgraceful.
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
In September 2000 on the Prague do, she marched the International Socialists bloc up to the bridge - miles off the route she/they'd agreed to - where the Tute Bianche/Ya Basta bloc was piling pressure on the most static and militarised of the three target points. Bullhorn Julie having shouted out some feisty sounding slogans, she then directed her ‘troops’ to throw rocks at the police lines (I know, I wouldn't believe it either, except I was stood there and saw/heard her do it)... Except they were throwing from way back and everything fell short onto the dozens-deep Ya Basta lines. Shortly afterwards she fucked off, taking her lot on another not-agreed-upon march elsewhere, to no tactical or strategic value. Bonkers.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Goddard managed to get himself nicked outside The Lowry trying to block Corbyns car in.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Singing "we love you Boris we do" ‘Yellow vest’ protester James Goddard arrested after approaching Jeremy Corbyn’s car
