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Titanic tourist sub missing

A380 said:
Would it have some kind of active sonar Beacon? Something that makes a loud noise automatically so that it could be located?

Also, is this a unique vessel or is it a tourist- modified version of something used in oil and gas and/or deep sea cable operations?

(pseudonarcissus perhaps?)
Click to expand...

Unique I think. At least the pressure hull appears to have been, everything else is a bit cobbled together. The hull is an inner core of titanium wrapped in carbon fibre, which... as pseud pointed out... you'd better be really fucking confident in your engineering there.
 
Assuming if it's lost power but not been crushed it'll be a very unpleasant and very cold time for them.
 
clicker said:
I know it's a couple of miles down now, but how far was it , between where it started it's descent to the site of the wreck?
Just trying to gauge the size of the area they'd need to search.

I'm kind of assuming it's not a massive area, as it was only meant to be a tourist trip type of excursion.

If there's no radio signal underwater, why can't they just attach a bright , orange buoy to that specific sub before descent, on a REALLY long piece of rope, so it just bobs along above them?
Well it could get snagged on something, but there must be a better reason.





 
Click to expand...

I know there's probably a technical reason why, but couldn't they attach a signal beacon to the outside that could be sent to the surface and once on there, pop-open a float to keep it there? You could put it in a tube with a screw on the bottom and powered by batteries to get it to the surface. Some of the more extreme hikers keep beacons on hand for if they need to be located in an emergency.
 
Jimmy Don't said:
Has one considered that someone's gone boat-happy down there?
Click to expand...
Whatever happens, it’ll be a miracle if the CEO survives. If they’re all down there alive, it’s likely he’s been beaten to death by the passengers. I mean, you would, wouldn’t you - after getting him to sign something agreeing to a refund.

I can’t get over the fact that it went missing for hours on a previous dive, while trying to get directions on a mobile. Surely that was the last point at which this death trap should’ve been anywhere near water…

One star review. The driver got lost on the way, while texting. When we arrived we found the attraction to be in a dreadful state - broken in two, covered in rust.
 
Shame Bezos wasn’t on it. And James Cameron.
Though I feel bad about saying fuck em if there were any workers on the sub.
 
Orang Utan said:
Shame Bezos wasn’t on it. And James Cameron.
Though I feel bad about saying fuck em if there were any workers on the sub.
Click to expand...

It would appear the boss was piloting.

Cameron is a bit of an oddball, but I've got no more hard feeling against him than any other major hollywood director. And his early career is kind of undeniable.
 
A380 said:
Would it have some kind of active sonar Beacon? Something that makes a loud noise automatically so that it could be located?

Also, is this a unique vessel or is it a tourist- modified version of something used in oil and gas and/or deep sea cable operations?

(pseudonarcissus perhaps?)
Click to expand...
I'm used to working with things like this...a work class Remote Operated Vehicle (ROV).

1687264045220.png

They work down to about 3000 m and operate on a tether, a wire to lower them up and down on, and the tether includes an umbilical that is used to communicate with it and send commands. They are pretty high tech...a friend that works with the biggest manufacturer also led their bid for the next NASA space suite a few years ago. Typically they will have an acoustic beacon, so you can monitor their position from the surface, and a sonar so they can find things. The sonar images are pretty basic, shall we say. They certainly are not getting a picture that's easy to interpret, so you steer them using camera images.

Tether and umbilical management is a skilled business. When the ROV is working you need it to swim about unimpeded, but the cable floating around can get into a tangle, and caught up on stuff.

The manipulator arms are pretty powerful, and you can fit various skids with things like hydraulic power packs. They are not very powerful when it comes to pushing and pulling stuff, and it would be a struggle to see how they could deliver buoyancy to a dead submersible...in the oil business that is typically done by crane, lowering buoys on counterweights, then releasing the weights. The ROV hooks the buoyancy onto what you want to lift.

The sub that's lost I don't really understand, and I'm on a ship at the moment and they block YouTube.

I assume it has a very light umbilical to communicate between the surface and their playstation controller. I assume there is no tether, so they can't hoist it back to the surface. I assume they have some variable ballast tanks, and compressed air to maintain their altitude, and some small propellers to manoeuvre with. I assume there are solid ballast drop weights that are simple to dump to get positive buoyancy to come to the surface.

What seems strange to me, reading the press reports, is people taking about radio...radio waves really do not work well under water, and the fact that previous tourists talk about losing communications a lot. Losing comms with an ROV is rare, and you would immediately think about sending another one to find out what's going on. Maybe they became blasé about short interruptions to comms and either end assumed all was well when it wasn't.

The mother ship is ancient. It was built in 1959 as a lighthouse tender. It is not dynamically positioned. It really doesn't not look equipped to deal with much in the way of emergency recovery. From the photos, I can't see that it is equipped with a large ROV, and if it can't do stationkeeping, it is not a very useful resource.

I assume oil industry support vessels with ROVs will be going in that direction from the Canadian oilfield...but at 3,800m water depth the ROVs may not be able to operate in the water depth.

I imagine the friendly navies with nuclear submarines will be sending boats in that direction too...they may be able to detect sounds inside the submersible, and that may be able to use active sonar...but finding a tiny bit of tube in the middle of the Titanic debris field with systems designed to detect other submarines may be tricky. I suspect the navies may not wish to confirm or deny submarines in the area.
 
Tanya1982 said:
Whatever happens, it’ll be a miracle if the CEO survives. If they’re all down there alive, it’s likely he’s been beaten to death by the passengers. I mean, you would, wouldn’t you - after getting him to sign something agreeing to a refund.

I can’t get over the fact that it went missing for hours on a previous dive, while trying to get directions on a mobile. Surely that was the last point at which this death trap should’ve been anywhere near water…

One star review. The driver got lost on the way, while texting. When we arrived we found the attraction to be in a dreadful state - broken in two, covered in rust.
Click to expand...


If the company goes bust perhaps Pontins could buy up what's left and have a shot.
 
pseudonarcissus said:
I'm used to working with things like this...a work class Remote Operated Vehicle (ROV).

View attachment 380053

They work down to about 3000 m and operate on a tether, a wire to lower them up and down on, and the tether includes an umbilical that is used to communicate with it and send commands. They are pretty high tech...a friend that works with the biggest manufacturer also led their bid for the next NASA space suite a few years ago. Typically they will have an acoustic beacon, so you can monitor their position from the surface, and a sonar so they can find things. The sonar images are pretty basic, shall we say. They certainly are not getting a picture that's easy to interpret, so you steer them using camera images.

Tether and umbilical management is a skilled business. When the ROV is working you need it to swim about unimpeded, but the cable floating around can get into a tangle, and caught up on stuff.

The manipulator arms are pretty powerful, and you can fit various skids with things like hydraulic power packs. They are not very powerful when it comes to pushing and pulling stuff, and it would be a struggle to see how they could deliver buoyancy to a dead submersible...in the oil business that is typically done by crane, lowering buoys on counterweights, then releasing the weights. The ROV hooks the buoyancy onto what you want to lift.

The sub that's lost I don't really understand, and I'm on a ship at the moment and they block YouTube.

I assume it has a very light umbilical to communicate between the surface and their playstation controller. I assume there is no tether, so they can't hoist it back to the surface. I assume they have some variable ballast tanks, and compressed air to maintain their altitude, and some small propellers to manoeuvre with. I assume there are solid ballast drop weights that are simple to dump to get positive buoyancy to come to the surface.

What seems strange to me, reading the press reports, is people taking about radio...radio waves really do not work well under water, and the fact that previous tourists talk about losing communications a lot. Losing comms with an ROV is rare, and you would immediately think about sending another one to find out what's going on. Maybe they became blasé about short interruptions to comms and either end assumed all was well when it wasn't.

The mother ship is ancient. It was built in 1959 as a lighthouse tender. It is not dynamically positioned. It really doesn't not look equipped to deal with much in the way of emergency recovery. From the photos, I can't see that it is equipped with a large ROV, and if it can't do stationkeeping, it is not a very useful resource.

I assume oil industry support vessels with ROVs will be going in that direction from the Canadian oilfield...but at 3,800m water depth the ROVs may not be able to operate in the water depth.

I imagine the friendly navies with nuclear submarines will be sending boats in that direction too...they may be able to detect sounds inside the submersible, and that may be able to use active sonar...but finding a tiny bit of tube in the middle of the Titanic debris field with systems designed to detect other submarines may be tricky. I suspect the navies may not wish to confirm or deny submarines in the area.
Click to expand...

You know what you're talking about, clearly this isn't the thread for you! Leave us to our long bits of string with magnets on please. ;)
 
pseudonarcissus said:
I'm used to working with things like this...a work class Remote Operated Vehicle (ROV).

View attachment 380053

They work down to about 3000 m and operate on a tether, a wire to lower them up and down on, and the tether includes an umbilical that is used to communicate with it and send commands. They are pretty high tech...a friend that works with the biggest manufacturer also led their bid for the next NASA space suite a few years ago. Typically they will have an acoustic beacon, so you can monitor their position from the surface, and a sonar so they can find things. The sonar images are pretty basic, shall we say. They certainly are not getting a picture that's easy to interpret, so you steer them using camera images.

Tether and umbilical management is a skilled business. When the ROV is working you need it to swim about unimpeded, but the cable floating around can get into a tangle, and caught up on stuff.

The manipulator arms are pretty powerful, and you can fit various skids with things like hydraulic power packs. They are not very powerful when it comes to pushing and pulling stuff, and it would be a struggle to see how they could deliver buoyancy to a dead submersible...in the oil business that is typically done by crane, lowering buoys on counterweights, then releasing the weights. The ROV hooks the buoyancy onto what you want to lift.

The sub that's lost I don't really understand, and I'm on a ship at the moment and they block YouTube.

I assume it has a very light umbilical to communicate between the surface and their playstation controller. I assume there is no tether, so they can't hoist it back to the surface. I assume they have some variable ballast tanks, and compressed air to maintain their altitude, and some small propellers to manoeuvre with. I assume there are solid ballast drop weights that are simple to dump to get positive buoyancy to come to the surface.

What seems strange to me, reading the press reports, is people taking about radio...radio waves really do not work well under water, and the fact that previous tourists talk about losing communications a lot. Losing comms with an ROV is rare, and you would immediately think about sending another one to find out what's going on. Maybe they became blasé about short interruptions to comms and either end assumed all was well when it wasn't.

The mother ship is ancient. It was built in 1959 as a lighthouse tender. It is not dynamically positioned. It really doesn't not look equipped to deal with much in the way of emergency recovery. From the photos, I can't see that it is equipped with a large ROV, and if it can't do stationkeeping, it is not a very useful resource.

I assume oil industry support vessels with ROVs will be going in that direction from the Canadian oilfield...but at 3,800m water depth the ROVs may not be able to operate in the water depth.

I imagine the friendly navies with nuclear submarines will be sending boats in that direction too...they may be able to detect sounds inside the submersible, and that may be able to use active sonar...but finding a tiny bit of tube in the middle of the Titanic debris field with systems designed to detect other submarines may be tricky. I suspect the navies may not wish to confirm or deny submarines in the area.
Click to expand...

Quite possibly the first post worth reading on this thread :thumbs:
 
Numbers said:
On the clip on GMB this morning the guy was showing the toilet :eek:
Click to expand...


Going down that deep is a miserable fucking experience, you are in a super confined space going down and surfacing very very slowly with no out and half the time nothing to see but the black reminder of the immense and deadly pressure outside your window

But it’s also exceptionally cool when you get down there for your like 10 minute jaunt on the sea floor before you come back up again and spent another twelve hours surfacing.

It’s just not something I’d ever really consider doing
 
pseudonarcissus said:
I imagine the friendly navies with nuclear submarines will be sending boats in that direction too...they may be able to detect sounds inside the submersible, and that may be able to use active sonar...but finding a tiny bit of tube in the middle of the Titanic debris field with systems designed to detect other submarines may be tricky. I suspect the navies may not wish to confirm or deny submarines in the area.
Click to expand...
it's a great opportunity for vladimir putin to grab some good publicity for russia
 
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