Titanic tourist sub missing
- Thread starter not-bono-ever
- Start date
i had a conversation with an ex submariner this very morning about this . (Doesn't endow me with any expertise at all btw). i asked him if he had experienced any scary moments in his career. He revealed that once, whilst on board a polaris vessel, they had been tasked to (slowly) traverse a deep bottom of sea trench. Apparently it struck the wall of the trench with some force, causing many to shit themselves. Action stations were sounded, but no penetration damage was found to the hull. They (and we) got away with it. When i asked him what chances the passengers had in this mini sub he was emphatic - "absolutely nae chance". No coms, no possibility of getting out at that depth - "fucked"..
Interesting that he had little time for safety regulations as they hampered innovation. I’m sure these conversations can be covered with his passengers until their dying breaths.
The maker of the lost Titan submersible previously complained about strict passenger-vessel regulations, saying the industry was 'obscenely safe'
In a 2019 interview about the Titan, OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush lamented the effect of safety regulations on the commercial submersible industry.www.insider.com
Hmmmm
pseudonarcissus
fluttering and dancing
Here’s the Smithsonian interview in full
A Deep Dive Into the Plans to Take Tourists to the 'Titanic'
For a handsome price, a daredevil inventor will bring you aboard his groundbreaking submarine to put eyes on most famous shipwreck of all
urbanspaceman
Well-Known Member
I have been wondering this too, but can't find any info, not in news reports nor on Oceangate's materials. So let's speculate in the true U75 tradition.
Firstly, it's not oxygen; they will be breathing normal air (80% Nitrogen, 20% Oxygen) at normal atmospheric pressure of 1 bar. Pure oxygen at 1 bar is amazingly dangerous (see: Apollo 1 fire). When breathing in a confined space, the main problem is CO2 build up, and then to a much lesser extent, oxygen depletion.
Bearing in mind the small budget and limited engineering skills of Oceangate, I am going to assume that they must use off-the-shelf technology, in the shape of repurposed diving "rebreathers", used by commercial and advanced recreational divers. These units contain a canister of Lithium Oxide, which absorbs CO2, and turns into Lithium Carbonate, a one-way process. The used canisters are sent back to the manufacturer to be refurbished. Rebreathers also contain small tanks of oxygen and diluent gases. A lump of complicated electronics monitors the air composition, and releases O2 and diluents as required to maintain a healthy gas mix. So I would buy a bunch of rebreathers, dismantle them, reassemble them on some sort of rack or framework, and install it under the internal floor of the vessel.
Yossarian
⏭️
US Coast Guard said a couple of hours ago that the sub had around 40 hours of air left
pseudonarcissus
fluttering and dancing
It’s interesting that other articles mentioned problems with fatigue life calculations, and here they mention acoustic detection of structural problems in the carbon fibre…that type of fracture analysis is s bit of a black art..it’s hard enough with steel structures where we have a lot of test data..if they find it, I suspect there won’t be much left to recover other than the titanium bits
pseudonarcissus
fluttering and dancing
The problem will be less acute in the sub as the air quality issues are exacerbated by pressure as much as concentration and exposure time (I seem to recall the “footsworth” being the unit of measure).I have been wondering this too, but can't find any info, not in news reports nor on Oceangate's materials. So let's speculate in the true U75 tradition.
Firstly, it's not oxygen; they will be breathing normal air (80% Nitrogen, 20% Oxygen) at normal atmospheric pressure of 1 bar. Pure oxygen at 1 bar is amazingly dangerous (see: Apollo 1 fire). When breathing in a confined space, the main problem is CO2 build up, and then to a much lesser extent, oxygen depletion.
Bearing in mind the small budget and limited engineering skills of Oceangate, I am going to assume that they must use off-the-shelf technology, in the shape of repurposed diving "rebreathers", used by commercial and advanced recreational divers. These units contain a canister of Lithium Oxide, which absorbs CO2, and turns into Lithium Carbonate, a one-way process. The used canisters are sent back to the manufacturer to be refurbished. Rebreathers also contain small tanks of oxygen and diluent gases. A lump of complicated electronics monitors the air composition, and releases O2 and diluents as required to maintain a healthy gas mix. So I would buy a bunch of rebreathers, dismantle them, reassemble them on some sort of rack or framework, and install it under the internal floor of the vessel.
savoloysam
Pigman's pigman's ha ha charade you are..
Zero seconds once the tin can has imploded to smithereens.
Wait a minute. I can understand the hatred and contempt for Bezos.
But James Cameron? What has he done to deserve death?
And then right after that they said it would take between two and five days for ships with specialist equipment to arrive.
There was someone on Sky suggesting that they’d all be ‘napping and meditating’, which seems a very hopeful thought.
I fail to understand how race, ethnicity or even nationality factors into this one at all.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't be surprised if they just didn't spend the money for proper NDT testing. I have a friend who does NDT for nuclear power plants and power generation. He considered getting marine NDT certifications because marine NDT techs make a shit-ton of money.
I wouldn't be surprised if they just didn't spend the money for proper NDT testing. I have a friend who does NDT for nuclear power plants and power generation. He considered getting marine NDT certifications because marine NDT techs make a shit-ton of money.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
What? It's been all over the news since the start "96 hours" to now "40 hours".
Explorers Club speaks of ‘cause for hope’ in Titanic sub search – as it happened
Noises picked up by Canadian aircraft looking for missing tourist submersible but revised search produced ‘negative results’, say authorities; Explorers Club says data could potentially suggest ‘likely signs of life’
urbanspaceman
Well-Known Member
I mean no description of how breathing gas system is designed or works.What? It's been all over the news since the start "96 hours" to now "40 hours".
Explorers Club speaks of ‘cause for hope’ in Titanic sub search – as it happened
Noises picked up by Canadian aircraft looking for missing tourist submersible but revised search produced ‘negative results’, say authorities; Explorers Club says data could potentially suggest ‘likely signs of life’www.theguardian.com
pseudonarcissus
fluttering and dancing
I wouldn't be surprised if they just didn't spend the money for proper NDT testing. I have a friend who does NDT for nuclear power plants and power generation. He considered getting marine NDT certifications because marine NDT techs make a shit-ton of money.
[/QUOTE]
The problem with carbon fibre is there’s not much NDT you can do…ultrasonics and X-ray don't really show the cracks as the fibres come away from the matrix…hence trying acoustics to try to hear to the bonds breaking
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urbanspaceman
Well-Known Member
Yes, the ambient temperature is 4C at depth.
other ways to die: fire, smoke inhalation, caused by electrical failure. Business Insider reports on a court case involving the sacking of an employee named Lochridge, who complained about the lack of hull integrity testing and the use of hazardous flammable materials inside the hull.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
I know next to nothing about deep water engineering (or engineering in general, for that matter), but the more I read about the design of this submarine, the more I'm convinced that it was a deathtrap from the start. The design reflects the appalling attitudes towards safety exhibited by OceanGate at the highest levels of the organisation. Did they even test this thing?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Even the company name predicted a scandal.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
OceanGateGate.
pogofish
Testicle Hairstyle
At those depths, the pressure/salinity conditions mean that even Titanium rots. We had to change our lander frames and release mechanisms on a regular/rotating basis. I can't remember anything over two years old (typically 4/5 cruises) going down and the release mechs were replaced annually.
The grade of titanium we had to use for deep sea work was exceptional - one year, we found ourselves in a bidding war with Lockheed and Honda Racing for virtually the entire annual production of that particular grade - we won!
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pseudonarcissus
fluttering and dancing
the technology has been around for ages...LR5 was built in the 70s and I think it was fibreglass
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
I mean, just because the material is proven, doesn't mean that the particular design using that material is proven. The Vasa was built out of a proven material, in this case wood, but that didn't prevent her from meeting an ignominious fate less than two kilometres into her maiden voyage.
Ax^
Silly Rabbit
Gromit
International Man of Misery
pogofish
Testicle Hairstyle
For that reason, our engineers tended to use acetate and PVC for the synthetic parts - They were much more consistent strength-wise and we could gather test data in our own pressure tank.
The only fibre-based components we used were floats.
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