The Trump presidency

[Pickman's model]

and we also know that all countries categorise and count rapes in exactly the same way.

not to mention define

 

[belboid]

Oh, you are clever. How old are you?

So rape is not rape?

Rape statistics Sweden 2012 are fake?

66.5 offences per 100,000 in 2012, but it's not all rape?

what is it then? How does it get reduced to nothing? Do the statistics include looking at breasts or sexist comments by passers by in the street, so therefore can't be valid?

What is the definition of rape in the Swedish rape statistics?

ahem

Why are you confused? It explains itself in the very next line. Different counting methods, even the providers of the statistic say it is not to be taken at face value.

So where is the confusion?

you dishonest shit

 

[Anudder Oik]

ahem



you dishonest shit

Nowhere am I dishonest or shit.

How is the definition of rape not rape in the swedish statisitics? The contradiction in the Independent article is staring you in the face.

When in doubt, resort to name calling. That's about the level of rigour to be expected from some on here.

 

[belboid]

Nowhere am I dishonest or shit.

How is the definition of rape not rape in the swedish statisitics? The contradiction in the Independent article is staring you in the face.

When in doubt, resort to name calling. That's about the level of rigour to be expected from some on here.

Funny how you have changed your argument (that's called dishonesty). And what 'rape not rape'? What the hell are you talking about. The article is very clear, different jurisdictions have different standards for what constitutes rape, is that too difficult for you to comprehend?

What is your point?

 

[Anudder Oik]

The Independent is dishonest and manipulative in it's way of reporting.

They say:

More than four years ago, in September 2012 Klara Selin, a sociologist at the National Council for Crime Prevention in Stockholm, was also pointing out to the BBC that “In Sweden, there has been this ambition explicitly to record every case of sexual violence separately, to make it visible in the statistics.

“So, for instance, when a woman comes to the police and she says my husband or my fiance raped me almost every day during the last year, the police have to record each of these events, which might be more than 300 events. In many other countries it would just be one record – one victim, one type of crime, one record.”

What the Independent wants us to think is that there are less victims, individual cases filling up and distorting the statistics, that the problem lies in how the statistics are gathered. That is not proof, it is speculation. 300 times, ffs.

If that's the case we can all sleep assured that in Sweden there has only been one rape victim who was attacked over and over by one attacker and that accounts for the figures being so high. It could very well be the case but to dismiss any further questioning on such a basis is dishonest in itself. The case can't be closed until a proper breakdown of the "events" is given" and the swedish state has legislated so that that can't be done. Why?

 

[J Ed]

Funny how you have changed your argument (that's called dishonesty). And what 'rape not rape'? What the hell are you talking about. The article is very clear, different jurisdictions have different standards for what constitutes rape, is that too difficult for you to comprehend?

What is your point?

I think it's also that different elements of what would be considered one rape are considered and recorded separately in Sweden.

All this being said, the 'in Sweden actually everything is harmonious' is sort of undermined today by the news that polling indicates that the Sweden Democrats are the second most popular party.

 

[J Ed]

Article by two senior politicians in the Sweden Democrats in the WSJ show how much Trump's election has mainstreamed far-right populism.

 

[TomUS]

They may actually believe that trump is going to revive jobs, cut down on competitors for those jobs and raise their living standards with a higher minimum wage. You have no sympathy with them because for you in your smugness, they are the enemy.

Trump is staunchly against increasing the minimum wage. Trump supporters ARE the enemy.

 

[Ranbay]

yeh cos we all know reports and actual incidence are clearly connected.

Just booked my flights...... have you?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The Independent is dishonest and manipulative in it's way of reporting.

They say:

More than four years ago, in September 2012 Klara Selin, a sociologist at the National Council for Crime Prevention in Stockholm, was also pointing out to the BBC that “In Sweden, there has been this ambition explicitly to record every case of sexual violence separately, to make it visible in the statistics.

“So, for instance, when a woman comes to the police and she says my husband or my fiance raped me almost every day during the last year, the police have to record each of these events, which might be more than 300 events. In many other countries it would just be one record – one victim, one type of crime, one record.”

What the Independent wants us to think is that there are less victims, individual cases filling up and distorting the statistics, that the problem lies in how the statistics are gathered. That is not proof, it is speculation. 300 times, ffs.

If that's the case we can all sleep assured that in Sweden there has only been one rape victim who was attacked over and over by one attacker and that accounts for the figures being so high. It could very well be the case but to dismiss any further questioning on such a basis is dishonest in itself. The case can't be closed until a proper breakdown of the "events" is given" and the swedish state has legislated so that that can't be done. Why?

wtf are you dribbling about. The article is very clear: there are broadly three reasons why you would expect Sweden's rape reports to be higher 1. their definition of rape is broader than other countries, 2. there is a different culture in terms of reporting rape (we all know that most rapes in most places go unreported), 3. they record rapes differently, by incident rather than by person.

Combine that with the graph showing how rape reports went up due to changes in the law and in reporting procedures, nothing to do with refugees, and you have an overall picture showing that Trump and Farage are dishonest cunts of the highest order.

btw none of this means anyone has to think Sweden is a great shining example to us all. It merely means that the idea it is the rape capital of anywhere due to its refugee policy is a despicable, hateful, racist lie.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Article by two senior politicians in the Sweden Democrats in the WSJ show how much Trump's election has mainstreamed far-right populism.

I think that process started some time back and Trump just confirms it.

 

[Anudder Oik]

wtf are you dribbling about. The article is very clear: there are broadly three reasons why you would expect Sweden's rape reports to be higher 1. their definition of rape is broader than other countries, 2. there is a different culture in terms of reporting rape (we all know that most rapes in most places go unreported), 3. they record rapes differently, by incident rather than by person.

Combine that with the graph showing how rape reports went up due to changes in the law and in reporting procedures, nothing to do with refugees, and you have an overall picture showing that Trump and Farage are dishonest cunts of the highest order.

btw none of this means anyone has to think Sweden is a great shining example to us all. It merely means that the idea it is the rape capital of anywhere due to its refugee policy is a despicable, hateful, racist lie.

I get what you are saying. It means that the statisitics are open to interpretation depending on your politics or outlook. For optimists it's proof enough that say, 2 victims took up all the statistic space for one year, say 2 victims raped by one attacker on 30 occasions each, with the other 3 cases being some other flimsy defininition.

However, for pessimists they could simply be 66 rapes by 66 men. (within the per capita that is)

 

[8den]

White House: Feds will step up marijuana law enforcement - CNNPolitics.com

the 2 connected possibly ? lock up loads more people for prison slavery ??

Private Prisons are very financially successful AND donated heavily to Trump's campaign.

Any country that finds a way to monetise it's poor is sick.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It mweans that the statisitics are open to interpretation dependeing on your politics or outlook. .

No, it doesn't mean that. Nothing in the post by me that you quoted is dependent on my politics or outlook.

 

[8den]

I get what you are saying. It means that the statisitics are open to interpretation depending on your politics or outlook. For optimists it's proof enough that say, 2 victims took up all the statistic space for one year, say 2 victims raped by one attacker on 30 occasions each, with the other 3 cases being some other flimsy defininition.

However, for pessimists they could simply be 66 rapes by 66 men. (within the per capita that is)

Not pessimists people dishonestly misrepresenting the truth. Trying to conflate the truth with voodoo statistics is weak ass bullshit.

The number of rapes in Sweden has not dramatically increased since they began taking in more refugees.

 

[ohmyliver]

Private Prisons are very financially successful AND donated heavily to Trump's campaign.

Any country that finds a way to monetise it's poor is sick.

and "Donald Trump’s Department of Justice has reopened its doors to business from private prisons. On Thursday, Attorney General Jeff Sessions made it public that he rescinded a guidance that tasked the Justice Department with ending its use of privately operated prisons." Trump’s Department of Justice just reopened business for private prisons

who needs cheap offshore workers when you can have slave workers.

 

[belboid]

I get what you are saying. It means that the statisitics are open to interpretation depending on your politics or outlook. For optimists it's proof enough that say, 2 victims took up all the statistic space for one year, say 2 victims raped by one attacker on 30 occasions each, with the other 3 cases being some other flimsy defininition.

However, for pessimists they could simply be 66 rapes by 66 men. (within the per capita that is)

you very clearly do not get what he is saying. What an unpleasant person you are

 

[CrabbedOne]

I would be very surprised if a large influx of energetic young men on the make to a relatively low crime society didn't up some violent crime statistics. Immigration has both upsides and downsides and often more of the latter are apparent to natives initially as the blow ins lose their rough edges and adapt.

This on the other hand does not really light my hair on fire:

I recall reading there were just 10 murders in Sweden last year. That's a real quiet week in Chicago. I hate to think what this would look like if a million urban Midwesterners turned up in sleepy Sweden.

Just checked that 10, too low:

...
According to official statistics, 2015 saw an four percent increase in reported crimes compared to 2014. The categories of crimes that reported the highest increases were vandalism and computer-based fraud. 2015 saw a slight decrease in thefts, sex offenses, and traffic crimes. In 2015, car thefts and thefts from vehicles increased one percent from the previous year for a total number of 67,400 reported crimes.The homicide rate in 2015 remained relatively unchanged from 2014 with approximately 90 reported cases. The country is not immune to random acts of violence.
...

My bold, so in terms of murders more like Chicago this year so far.

 

[CrabbedOne]

On The Hill Arms control groups slam Trump's 'alternative facts' on nukes

...
Further, he said the New START Treaty with Russia that caps the number of nuclear warheads the U.S. and Russia can deploy is “a one-sided deal.”

"Just another bad deal that the country made, whether it's START, whether it's the Iran deal,” he said. “We're going to start making good deals.”

The interview follows a tweet in December in which Trump said the U.S. should “greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capability.”

That tweet also prompted alarm in the arms control community, which said existing warheads and modernization efforts are more than enough.

In response to Thursday’s comments, Blair said a buildup of the kind Trump is proposing would lead to a “nightmare scenario."

“The use of even a single nuclear weapon, anywhere in the world, would be a global humanitarian, environmental and economic disaster,” he said. “A nuclear build-up in the U.S., which would be followed by similar build-ups in other countries, only makes that nightmare scenario more likely.”

Blair also said it’s worrying that Trump “understands so little” about New START.

“New START imposes equal obligations on both the United States and Russia,” Blair said. “The idea that it’s one-sided is one more ‘alternative fact’ from this administration that must be loudly rejected.”

The Arms Control Association said Trump needs to “get smart and avoid reckless statements” about nuclear weapons.

“The history of the Cold War shows us that no one comes out on ‘top of the pack’ of an arms race and nuclear brinksmanship,” the group said in a post on its website. “President Trump needs to work with Russia's President Putin to build down, not build up their excessive nuclear arsenals and stop stirring up nuclear tensions."

 

[Anudder Oik]

A journalist called Tim Pool has taken up a challenge to go see for himself in Sweden. He was financed by another journalist who offered 2000 dollars. Dunno their bonafides.

Tim Pool (@Timcast) on Twitter

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I

Just checked that 10, too low:
.

The average of about 3 per 100,000 per year would make around 300 per year.

Still way less than Chicago. Chicago's rate, taking its population to be 3 million and an average year to be 600, is around 20 per 100,000 per year.

Would be possible in Sweden for there to only be 10 murders in any given month, but clearly not in any given year.

ETA: the other thing to bear in mind regarding this comparison would the the differences in murder rates by race/social class. In Sweden, that difference is unlikely to be all that high. In Chicago, it will be enormous - if you're rich and white in Chicago, the chances of you being murdered are way less than 20/100,000, probably somewhere close to the Swedish figure.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Maybe Trump should have cited Chicago in his speech and not Sweden.

 

[CrabbedOne]

From OSAC Sweden 2016 Crime & Safety Report

...
Criminal networks from neighboring Schengen countries can impact the nature of criminal activity in Sweden, but it is unknown exactly how much influence these networks have. Organized criminal activity is driven by low-level organized criminal groups, many associated with larger motorcycle gangs and organized crime elements from Eastern Europe. Small businesses have reported extortion; however, larger, international companies and franchises have not reported being targeted. Between January-August 2015, Malmö experienced 31 grenade attacks, which resulted in no deaths and minor injuries to a few individuals, that police attributed to conflicts between organized crime elements. Police made a concerted effort to stop grenade attacks, and none have been reported since then.
...

It's nice to see all these troublesome refugees have really taken to Nordic biker culture.

 

[bimble]

A journalist called Tim Pool has taken up a challenge to go see for himself in Sweden. He was financed by another journalist who offered 2000 dollars. Dunno their bonafides.

Tim Pool (@Timcast) on Twitter

What are you like
That boy is absurd. He's courageously venturing into the migrant infested suburbs wearing a bullet proof vest inspired by and FUNDED BY this man, one of the most notorious alt right red pill pushing pro-Trumpers in twitterland.


Oh look. He knows where to go to back up his claims when challenged though, that reliable non fake news site Infowars.

 

[8den]

A journalist called Tim Pool has taken up a challenge to go see for himself in Sweden. He was financed by another journalist who offered 2000 dollars. Dunno their bonafides.

Tim Pool (@Timcast) on Twitter

I can't believe we're reduced to having to check IF a suburban in Sweden resemblances a cross between Mad Mad and Children of Men.

 

[ohmyliver]

Donald Trump just launched a tirade against the FBI it's all getting a bit Nixon 2.0

 

[Raheem]

I can't believe we're reduced to having to check IF a suburban in Sweden resemblances a cross between Mad Mad and Children of Men.

This. Fact-checking for counter-propaganda purposes is one thing, but we're in trouble if we're going to actually start treating this sort of bullshit seriously. If you know what the source is, you already know what to make of it.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

If someone will pay the bus fare, I would like to volunteer to venture into the Islamic Republic of Birmingham. If I make it back, I promise to record my adventures on here.

 

[terapija]

Maybe Trump should have cited Chicago in his speech and not Sweden.

I wonder why he didn't

 

[Nylock]

Maybe Trump should have cited Chicago in his speech and not Sweden.

Chicago is already in Trump's crosshairs...