the purpose of life

[fattboy]

im not claiming 2 be an expert at all.

 

[butchersapron]

the bits about the sophistication and perfection of the world around us and our bodies, i found very appealing, and coming from a christian background the comments about christianitys position on God.
he wasnt conjecturing, he was stating facts ppl can reflect on.
yeah we all know about how everything fits 2gether nicely but we dont often take time 2 reflect on this and attempt 2 draw any conclusions from it.

i think this has a lot more justification 2 be in a forum about theory and philosophy than some random spouting.

Is there are any purpose to life outside of Islam - or for atheists? Can they construct their own puprose and meaning or is it externally given and that's it 4eva?

 

[Dillinger4]

im not claiming 2 be an expert at all.

I don't even think you have a claim to have anything to say at all.

 

[invisibleplanet]

Where does it say homosexuals, practising or otherwise, should be put to death?
Even Prophet Muhammad treated Mukhannathun with a degree of tolerance that certainly did not involve putting them to death!

Why do you, living in UK, go against the exhortations of UK Muslim councils who say that tolerance is the only correct response against homosexuality?

Why do you want to introduce someone into UK who has been roundly rejected by Islamic scholars and Imam for his fatawa.

Are you the "warm up" for Sheikh Khalid Yasin's grand promotional tour of Britain's Masjid?

 

[invisibleplanet]

Is there are any purpose to life outside of Islam - or for atheists? Can they construct their own puprose and meaning or is it externally given and that's it 4eva?

Legally speaking, in religious law, it's against that law to murder an aetheist - that would take away his ability to move towards G0D at any time between the now and his death.

Upon the aetheist's death, (religiously speaking) from a believer's point of view, G0D will make judgement, but it's not for MAN to judge the non-believer and mete out a death sentence and thus remove the aetheists ability to move toward G0D.

 

[butchersapron]

Legally speaking, in religious law, it's against that law to murder an aetheist - that would take away his ability to move towards G0D at any time between the now and his death.

Upon the aetheist's death, (religiously speaking) from a believer's point of view, G0D will make judgement, but it's not for MAN to judge the non-believer and mete out a death sentence and thus remove the aetheists ability to move toward G0D.

Nothing to with my point which was addressed to fattboy. My point wasn't about religious law or killing atheists (not all things are you know) but about 'purpose' and 'meaning' in life and it's potential construction.

 

[invisibleplanet]

Nothing to with my point which was addressed to fattboy. My point wasn't about religious law (not all things are you know) but about 'purpose' and 'meaning' in life and it's potential construction.

OK. No-one is preventing him from giving an answer.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes, please remember s/he is not your client.

 

[invisibleplanet]

I don't know what you mean by 'client'.

 

[fattboy]

'If u find anyone doing as Luts people did,kill the one who does it and the one to whom it is done'
(Abu Dawud 4447)

uk muslim councils have no basis in the sharia, i dont really care what Inayat Bungawala or Iqbal Sacranie say 2 be honest.

Khalid Yasin lives in the uk, he has 4 a while.

and im not advocating muslims 2 go round rounding up homosexuals, this law is only applicable in an Islamic state.

can u please clarify the 'fatwa', ur referring 2 about Khalid Yasin and which other scholars have rejected him.

 

[invisibleplanet]

Abu Dawud was neither G0D nor Prophet Muhammed last time I looked.
A fourth rate Hadith with no basis in Qu'ran, and contrary to the actions of Prophet Muhammed and you expect me to accept that?

Also, Lot's people - the father, Lot was tricked by his own daughters to copulate and bore his children. That is the 'crime' of Lot's people. That's not a "sex-crime" we see committed often, since it's usually the Father initiating sex with his children against their consent (incestous rape of a minor), and that was not the crime of "Lot's people" who were grown women unable to find husbands, breeding with their own father

 

[fattboy]

according 2 Jewish belief.

 

[Spion]

and im not advocating muslims 2 go round rounding up homosexuals, this law is only applicable in an Islamic state.

Does that mean you would be in favour of homosexuals being rounded up in a Muslim state?

You'll never get one here, BTW, so I'd best start finding out how the world really works, if I were you.

 

[invisibleplanet]

according 2 Jewish belief.

According to Torah, yes, Lot's daughters tricked their father into siring their children. It's an indisputable text tho. Anyway, that's 2nd millenium BCE stuff, and it's still forbidden to have sex with your father (and vice-versa).


Re. Attitudes to homosexuality. This is the 21st Century, not the 1st, or the 9th, or the 19th.
There are big probs with Haredim attitudes towards homosexuals at Gay Parade time (and no doubt persecution/troubles in those communities) - some 3 Gay people were unfortunately stabbed but the person doing that was convicted of attempted murder.

"I came to murder on behalf of G-d. We can't have such abomination in the country," Schlissel told police during his subsequent interrogation.

Schlissel refused to talk to the press following Tuesday's ruling in the Jerusalem court, and would only said that "I don't give interviews to those who bring troubles to Jews."

According to the charge sheet, the haredi assailant purchased the knife ahead of time in order to carry out the attack at the June 30 parade.

"The accused displayed extreme fanatical behavior, and made up his mind not to let the parade end in peace at any cost," the judges wrote in their ruling.

"He had no tolerance, not even minimal, toward the people who attended the parade because his worldview rejects any compromise. The accused was fully conscious and ready to pay a heavy personal price for his acts," the judges added.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1138622514419&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

 

[Jonti]

My impression is that you are waaay out of your depth fattboy.

I can hardly bear to watch ....

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Why would anyone be remotely interested in the rantings of a mystic nut from over a thousand years ago?

 

[muckypup]

Fattboy you're a classic example of a slowly dying era, one characterised by ignorance and fear. Khalid Yasin and his ilk have failed to grasp the beauty of faith, becoming mere reactionaries against what they percieve as an onslaught on their way of life. They're people of little intellect and a big mouth whose identification with Islam is an embarrassment to the Muslim community.

Seriously give it a rest. You're way out of your depth and you don't even know it.

 

[Spion]

Why would anyone be remotely interested in the rantings of a mystic nut from over a thousand years ago?

In a perfect world, as the quaint and deluded ramblings of early humans

 

[muckypup]

And this new obsession with homosexuality has more to do with the influence of Christian fundamentalism. The (silent) majority of Muslims dont give a toss, so to speak

 

[littlebabyjesus]

In a perfect world, as the quaint and deluded ramblings of early humans

Yes. Of purely anthropological interest, to be shelved under 'history of superstition'.

 

[invisibleplanet]

And this new obsession with homosexuality has more to do with the influence of Christian fundamentalism. The (silent) majority of Muslims dont give a toss, so to speak

I think you might have a very good point here.

Maybe there is a theme developing here too. In the widely reported media "cases" of revert (convert) Muslims exhorting death on homosexuals (amongst other things), each was brought up as Christian prior to their reversion to Islam. They were all from USA too. I'm thinking of the Dispatches programme (Undercover Mosque) which featured Bilal Phillips and Abu Usamah and Sheikh Yasin - all from USA, all ex-Christian, all three definitely trained in Saudi (Phillips and Usamah and Yasin).

Yasin is British-based, as fattboy says:

We don't need to go to the Christians or the Jews debating with them about the filth which they believe. We Muslims have been ordered to do brainwashing because the kuffaar they are doing brain defiling. You are watching the kaffir TV and your wife is watching it right now and your children are watching it and they are being polluted and they are being penetrated and they are being infected, so that you come out of the houseand your children come out of the house as Muslims and come back as kaffirs

Anecdote
I lived 10 years in a Muslim community - never heard anything remotely like the type of thing that the above three Americans came out with. Used to chat regularly with the local Imam about religious law and the state of the world. My son invited to our neighbours birthday parties and Eid feasts. Blokes who were homosexual were still loved by their mums and dads, and the muslims who drank in the pub or who didn't bother with mosque any more still had good relations with their families - male or female.

 

[muckypup]

I think you might have a very good point here.

Maybe there is a theme developing here too. In the widely reported media "cases" of revert (convert) Muslims exhorting death on homosexuals (amongst other things), each was brought up as Christian prior to their reversion to Islam. They were all from USA too. I'm thinking of the Dispatches programme (Undercover Mosque) which featured Bilal Phillips and Abu Usamah and Sheikh Yasin - all from USA, all ex-Christian, all three definitely trained in Saudi (Phillips and Usamah and Yasin).

Yasin is British-based, as fattboy says:

Thats interesting. Also giving a highly selective platform to hate, as our biased media does, guarantees demonisation providing ample justification to bomb the barbarians towards civilization.

According to this Yasin is currently the Director of the Islamic Teaching Institute in the USA

 

[invisibleplanet]

Yes, that's the one. He was not welcomed by the muslim majority in OZ.

 

[muckypup]

Anecdote
I lived 10 years in a Muslim community - never heard anything remotely like the type of thing that the above three Americans came out with. Used to chat regularly with the local Imam about religious law and the state of the world. My son invited to our neighbours birthday parties and Eid feasts. Blokes who were homosexual were still loved by their mums and dads, and the muslims who drank in the pub or who didn't bother with mosque any more still had good relations with their families - male or female.

yup everyone i've met whose had prolonged contact with the muslim community walk away with an impression completely at odds with the one generated by the media.

 

[invisibleplanet]

Aye - local Halal butcher was an amazing place for conversation
We used to go there all the time because the meat is killed according to my liking and at a price that a low-income w/c person like me can afford.

 

[muckypup]

Yes, that's the one. He was not welcomed by the muslim majority in OZ.

out of the many highly intelligent and articulate muslim thinkers its sad that hate filled intellectually bankrupt dumb fucks like Yassin are given a raised profile pleased to hear the Oz muslim community told him to sod off

 

[invisibleplanet]

out of the many highly intelligent and articulate muslim thinkers its sad that hate filled intellectually bankrupt dumb fucks like Yassin are given a raised profile pleased to hear the Oz muslim community told him to sod off

It seems there is a strong link to both Saudi and America. What's going on here?

Missionaries from the World Health Organisation and Christian groups went into Africa and inoculated people for diphtheria, malaria, yellow fever and they put in the medicine the AIDS virus, which is a conspiracy

This whole delusion of the equality of women is a bunch of foolishness….there's no such thing

These three men have certainly advertised their 'scholarly-ness' to British and other (e.g. OZ) Muslim community institutions in quite an organised way - DVDs, books, websites, etc. But it's these men whose words have been used in the media AGAINST our Muslim community here - they appear to have exploited the fear in British Muslim communities that has escalated since 2001.

(Yes, good on OZ Muslims for rejecting Yasin!)

 

[muckypup]

It seems there is a strong link to both Saudi and America. What's going on here?

There's unanimous agreement within the muslim community, together with much circumstantial evidence, both current and historical which strongly suggests that Saudi is a Anglo American client state.

The internal repression & disappearances of muslim intellectuals & scholars is legendary, and the application of sharia law is partial, both the economic and political applications of Sharia have been left out as that would outlaw both capitalism and monarchy.

And the personal aspects of Sharia law implemented is interpreted without the requiste compassion, understanding and tolerance. Indeed it would appear to be an excuse to further repress the population which is agitating for change.

Also, a harsh application of sharia provides the requisite demonisation essential for us to justify maintaining a military presence there and physically intervene when civil unrest becomes inevitable. Saudi has a bloody future ahead of it especially with peak oil on the horizon

 

[FridgeMagnet]

out of the many highly intelligent and articulate muslim thinkers its sad that hate filled intellectually bankrupt dumb fucks like Yassin are given a raised profile pleased to hear the Oz muslim community told him to sod off

Sad, but fairly predictable.

 

[muckypup]

These three men have certainly advertised their 'scholarly-ness' to British and other (e.g. OZ) Muslim community institutions in quite an organised way - DVDs, books, websites, etc. But it's these men whose words have been used in the media AGAINST our Muslim community here - they appear to have exploited the fear in British Muslim communities that has escalated since 2001.

Yes comparatively they have very good financial backing and are highly organised. And yes you're right the material which they then produce plays ever so beautifully in the hands of the western media. Makes one wonder doesnt it