Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
because it's not at all the same as ireland.
The Pro-Putin Left
- Thread starter AmateurAgitator
- Start date
ska invita
back on the other side
thanks for calling
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh you say this but this doesn't bear anything but the most facile comparison to the history of the six counties. this ignores the 1600s plantation of ulster. it ignores the history of sectarianism in the north, where there were periodic pogroms against catholics over several centuries. it ignores the way ireland wrested freedom for 26 counties from england. it is frankly historically illiterate. i really think you don't understand what the treaty that divided ireland actually did. you don't understand that for 50 years the six counties ran their own thing. that until 1972 there was no direct rule from westminster. that the reason the north was planted in tudor times was because that was where the greatest resistance to english rule had come from, which has caused repercussions to today.
i see where you're coming from. but you ought to read something about ireland and in particular northern ireland before making such a comparison again. maybe start with robert kee's the green flag
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
Ukraine we’re also responsible for human rights violations before the war started and we’re happy to allow the avowedly NAZI AZOV division and their ilk to commit honorific crimes in the breakaway regions so I don’t think either side has the moral high ground when it comes to it.
The war needs to stop because every day it continues more innocent people die and the risk of nuclear confrontation grows. We have all seen what prolonged proxy wars do to countries - Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya etc, and the west doesn’t have a great record of achieving clear victory.
At some point - hopefully in the near future- people will sit round the table to discuss compromise and the sooner governments start pushing towards that the better for the people of Ukraine and the world. Unless of course people really believe that there can be a military victory for Ukraine/NATO and that Russia can be suitably suppressed and disarmed without them nuking Ukraine to avoid total humiliation.
All these sudden fans for shitty NATO amaze me.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
what the world needs now is a moratorium on the deployment of sub-par platitudes like this
you haven't seen half of what the war thus far will do, with the dead spread from ukraine to africa to the middle east as the food which would normally flow from russia and ukraine stops. the dead in europe who couldn't afford to heat their homes. the dead in russia and ukraine, and across the countries who've taken refugees, who die from poisonous dust inhaled when buildings were destroyed. the combatant suicides of future years. and the civilians who kill themselves from the horrors they've witnessed or had inflicted on them.
and that's before you look at the wider environmental impact, the siberian forest fires, for example, which would be extinguished if fire fighters weren't in ukraine.
we can't afford this war
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
Totally, which is why we should all be pressuring for an end to this war at the earliest opportunity. Like I say, more and more innocent people will die every day it continues. If there is to be any chance of the millions of Ukrainian refugees being able to reunite with their families in their home country and to live in peace with their Russian neighbours, and for the bread basket of the world to function again there will need to be a negotiated compromise or an out an out military victory.
In 6 weeks Russia has seized a sizeable chunk of a country neighbouring EU/NATO countries and taken the world by suprise even though such a move has been on the cards for years. As with the pandemic the wests’ contingency planning was found wanting as it will of course for climate change . Maybe a negotiated settlement would be prudent on the basis of ‘live to fight another day’ should be in mind because it really doesn’t look like either side is going to just capitulate or suffer overwhelming defeat on the battlefield, and, as you say, it impacts the entire world in a way that previous proxy wars haven’t.
strung out
💩 🤣 🍆 💦 🧐 👻 🐝 🐈⬛
Maybe we should start a petition and send it to Putin?
Humberto
Margin (martian) margin
That's assuming Putins' demands will be acceptable or remotely reasonable. There is no logic to, and it is unfair to expect the Ukranian resistance to accept, 'peace at any cost'.
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
Maybe we should pressure our governments into putting the same efforts into perusing peace to save lives as they are in selling arms.
strung out
💩 🤣 🍆 💦 🧐 👻 🐝 🐈⬛
Petition to Boris then? Righto.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
he'd wipe his arse with it
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
only if it was written on a £50
mojo pixy
○-<{[°_°]}>-○
Darling fascist bully boy, stop killing and raping, you bastard. May the seed of your loins be fruitful in the belly of your woman.
- Urban 75
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah right. Can you give one example of something like Bucha committed by the Ukrainian side then? Or any reports of forcible deportations by Ukraine? Or in fact anything at all approaching the scale of the horrors inflicted by some of the Russian troops?
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nogojones
spelling is overrated
If you watch RT it was the Ukrainians who did it.
maomao
普費斯
To be fair, most of Team NATO on here don't actually have any influence over what's happening either, they just happen to agree with the government at the moment.
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Fuck NATO, but if Putin's reasons for invading Ukraine were anything to do with NATO, then he must be pretty thick because it was obvious this invasion would probably push Finland and Sweden, at least, into joining. He's the big recruiter for NATO.
8ball
Merr xmas...
A peace deal is one of only 3 options isn't it? The others being the destruction of Ukraine or massive, potentially nuclear, escalation.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
Or, perhaps, there is a Russian pretence not to want a peace deal. I don't think anyone posting here can claim to know what the reality is.
Cid
Proper break this time
This is just 4-dimensional chess...ism isn't it? If Russia secretly wanted a peace deal you'd expect some toning down of state rhetoric, some move toward an arguably acceptable settlement that Ukraine might not support, but might raise doubts for some of the major NATO players. We've had elements of that internationally, though it's pretty garbled and seems to change week-to-week (and controlling the whole of Ukraine's coast is pretty unlikely to fit anyone's definition of a compromise). But domestically it's still full-on defeat or WWIII, let's get the nukes out, Z movement tirades...
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
the people's iron fist has spoken
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
A petition? What are you talking about? I don’t bother much with petitions myself
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
I get the feeling strung out wasn't being entirely serious....
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
I wouldn’t imagine that any side wants to appear to eager for peace talks incase it’s seen as a sign of weakness etc., but the countries with a stake in the conflict or allies of the warring parties might well be pushing behind the scenes for them to sit around the table and negotiate. Biden stating he wants to damage Russia and hinting at regime change and thus boxing putin into a corner probably doesn’t help bring an end to the war closer.
ska invita
back on the other side
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
If politicians saying a few things out loud does nothing to bring an end to war closer maybe Putin should stop talking altogether.
rekil
to menny cranks
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
ffy
No pasaran. When is the send em back demo.
/crankiemode
??? I imagine the vast majority want to rerun as soon as it’s safe to do so and those that don’t should be made welcome as should all refugees fleeing conflict or poverty etc. I believe in zero borders but while we have them I’d rather we didn’t kill people to maintain/change themffy
No pasaran. When is the send em back demo.
/crankiemode
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
I've said this before and I'll probably have to say this again. Try reading your own posts before posting them.
