Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
... and manages a tone of big-I-am wankerdom in the process.
The Pro-Putin Left
- Thread starter AmateurAgitator
- Start date
... and manages a tone of big-I-am wankerdom in the process.
Yossarian
⏭️
If I ran Twitter, I'd say "request accepted" and change the designation to "Russian state-affiliated cunt."
Lurdan
old wave
That's a bit unfair. #notallcunts
I see the leader of another of Britain's major political parties has leapt to his defence.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
They've banned better people with more followers
friedaweed
Me and me girl named Jane
That's quite funny really. Someone has a good sense of humour in Twatterland.
friedaweed
Me and me girl named Jane
Aye Putin will be comparing Matt's cancelling against the west's attempts to cancel Russian culture tomorrow. I feel sorry for old JK House-elf. Now she's in league with Putin and Matt Le TissierSince we’re on that football…
Matt Le Tissier has stood down from whatever role he had at Southampton due to his belief they we're being lied to over Ukraine
Matt Le Tissier quits Southampton role after backlash over Ukraine tweet
Matt Le Tissier has stood down from his role as a Southampton ambassador following a backlash over a controversial social media post on the war in Ukrainewww.theguardian.com
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Oh God, I read the comments. 
Anyway, great PR, Stop the War.
Anyway, great PR, Stop the War.
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Yeah, definitely.
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belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
pfft, blatant false flag
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
The Miami Showband massacre.
Miami Showband massacre: UK government accused of ‘lies’ after £1.5m payout
Survivor of 1975 Northern Ireland attack says he agreed to settle because of plan to halt Troubles prosecutions
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Never read the comments, no good will come of itOh God, I read the comments.
Anyway, great PR, Stop the War.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
If you go to Parnell square, on the north side you find a memorial to Harris Boyle and Wesley Somerville.The Miami Showband massacre.
Miami Showband massacre: UK government accused of ‘lies’ after £1.5m payout
Survivor of 1975 Northern Ireland attack says he agreed to settle because of plan to halt Troubles prosecutions
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
Feels fairly likely it's someone from the ex-AFA/RA/IWCA and probably current FLAF milieu? Looking around, it seems like the person who's Class Action on fb is also fairly likely to be the "Celtic Fans Against Fascism"/Class1Action account on twitter: https://twitter.com/class1action
Wish they could've just stuck to what they were good at, cos when they were good they were really really good.Done my appalled check-up on the biggest "communist/antimperialist" wrongun I've seen recently, their attempts to explain away Roman Vorobyov's totenkopf were kind of entertaining:
"Is this a guy using captured insignia in a “joke”... I don’t know his motives (a trophy?)."
Their thoughts on Bucha less entertaining, and I imagine you can probably guess what they are.
Russian state controlled media strenuously denies affiliation with George Galloway
After being linked to a divisive, rabble-rousing and self-interested media presence, the Russian state media has this morning categorically denied links to George Galloway.
newsthump.com
Article about leftists seeing NATO as the problem here.
www.commondreams.org
There Is No Left Position That Justifies Putin's Attack on Ukraine | Common Dreams
"If we want to support the right of self-determination to America’s neighbors, we can’t deny the same to Russia’s. If we’re not able to recognize multiple imperialisms, we are guilty of the same kind of Americocentrism for which we castigate others."
www.commondreams.org
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
The reports of a chemical attack, albeit one with minor consequences, have set the usual suspects off. What is astonishing here is that the ‘anti (prefer one imperialist to another) imperialists’ accuse people about to be captured or slaughtered, in their own Country, of ‘dirty tricks’, but are on point slavishly to deny anything done by the invaders, even while the city is in ruins, working class housing destroyed and its people killed or cleansed from the area.
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Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Honestly, on top of all this horrible shit going down, it's heartbreaking to see all these people tying themselves up in knots to justify it. Some are obviously paid, and some are just awful people. but there are people with otherwise decent takes who seem to have gone down a horrific rabbit hole. It makes me feel sick.
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
This should be required reading for anyone involved in Stop the War, and anyone defending them.Article about leftists seeing NATO as the problem here.
There Is No Left Position That Justifies Putin's Attack on Ukraine | Common Dreams
"If we want to support the right of self-determination to America’s neighbors, we can’t deny the same to Russia’s. If we’re not able to recognize multiple imperialisms, we are guilty of the same kind of Americocentrism for which we castigate others."
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
That may be your opinion!
I'll give it another read though, which points should I be looking at?
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Well it isn't a short read but I'd say a bit before halfway down, he's saying about Putin having seen Ukraine as Russian and denying its autonomy. I definitely agree with him about not cheerleading for NATO, but that Putin is his own agent. Oh I'll quote the bit I found most relevant. In my opnion this is where it gets to the nitty gritty:
"Putin has been expressing his views on Ukraine extensively for years. In July 2021 Putin wrote [*links to Kremlin website*] (perhaps even himself) a 7,000-word article completely devoted to two points: that Ukraine is an inalienable part of Russia and that Ukrainians have no right to govern themselves unless they do so in deep collaboration with Russia. The piece argues that an unbreakable connection between Russia and Ukraine existed for over a thousand years until it was broken definitively by Lenin and the Bolsheviks, allowing a large Ukrainian Soviet republic to become an independent state when the Soviet Union collapsed.
Forget for a moment the bizarre assumption that nations take on their eternal form at one particular moment of creation. Putin’s more important quote is this: “Soviet nationality policy created three separate Slavic peoples, when in fact there is only one large Russian nation, a triune people comprising Great Russians [i.e., Russians], Little Russians [i.e., Ukrainians], and Belorussians.”
The problem, then, with all the accounts focusing on NATO—a topic barely mentioned in Putin’s July text—is that they deny Putin agency. They present Putin as someone capable only of reacting, to America. Putin has repeated endlessly, and with signal clarity, what he thinks of Ukraine apart from the question of NATO. The NATO question is certainly not unimportant, but western analysts who keep stressing its absolute centrality are just plain guilty of not letting easterners, even in this case Vladimir Putin himself, speak for themselves. Yet Putin is clear: if NATO, one year ago, had taken membership off the table, Putin would still be left with the problem of Ukraine insisting that it is a completely separate entity from Russia.
Further evidence for the centrality of the “one great Russian nation” theme comes from a remarkable article published a day after the invasion in Novosti, the official Russian news agency, and then deleted hours later when it realized the extent of Ukraine’s resistance. Amazingly, some in the top leadership have believed this would be a cakewalk, because the article announces that “a new era” has begun, with Russia “restoring its historical fullness” by re-uniting the Russian people “in its entirety of Great Russians, Belarussians, and Little Russians.” Ukrainian independence, it continues, is intolerable because it means the “de-Russification of Russians.”
How much clearer can Russia say that NATO was only a minor symptom of a bigger problem? Publicly Russia spoke about NATO because it knew that this was something anyone wary of American power could latch onto, as a way of minimizing Russian responsibility. We should indeed be wary of American power. But if we are to listen to what Putin says, then we must acknowledge his clear and proud expressions of utterly imperialist ambitions toward Ukraine."
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Don't 100% agree with your assesements, however points you bring up are very important in understanding the situation and how the conflict with Russian military intervention came about!Interesting point on
Slavic identiy, agree in some way, consider Serb Nationalism at the end of cold war, blatantly re-invented, much on historical mythology of conflicts with previous Empires; Ottoman, Hapsburg etc. to justify ethnic cleansing among other negative directions and actions!
However, like the Proxy war in Ukraine they were following the lead from EU and Western Imperialism: Predominantely German financial strategies through trade finance & banking thaat led to splitting and recognition of Slovenia & Croatia as western; predominately EU allies leading to Balkanisation of Yugoslavia, before Milosovic opportunistically encouraged Chauvanism & Reactionary Nationalism in Kosova and slightly later Bosnia!
This is just a load of phrases strung together and doesn't actually mean anything.
Why not start by explaining what you mean by:
And I'm not sure you ever explained what you meant by 'Ukraine region' either..?
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Yes, and I'm worried that things might get really nasty in the Balkans again.
I disagree with you that this is a proxy war, as I think that line lessens the agency of Ukrainians, and understates the longer imperialist aims of Russian leadership, but I wouldn't trust US interests at all, of course.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Ive been temporarily banned from "clash fans agasint the right" for calling one of admins out for arguing that The Iraq War was far worse than Russia invading Ukraine - (cos NATO, Azov etc) . WTF is wrong with some people - cant they see that BOTH were absolutely fucking terrible? - and why are they keener on defending hussians vile regime that was widely hated by its own people then a democratic country whose people are very keen to defend themselves?
Fucking cartoon politics - "reporting of atrocities is a big propaganda drive by the MI complex and nato and US who want to keep the war going to hurt putin and make a profit" - when absolutely nobody wanted this war bar fucking voldemort in the kremlin and their is no solid consensus and much debate about what " the west" should do. The "stop the war" left have their head up their arse - and the shroud waving about how NATO et al want WW3 (when - unsurprisingly - every single country in the alliance is grappling with avoiding that at all costs whilst supporting Ukraine's resistance ) is essentially repeating and reinforcing putins nuclear sabre rattling.
Fucking cartoon politics - "reporting of atrocities is a big propaganda drive by the MI complex and nato and US who want to keep the war going to hurt putin and make a profit" - when absolutely nobody wanted this war bar fucking voldemort in the kremlin and their is no solid consensus and much debate about what " the west" should do. The "stop the war" left have their head up their arse - and the shroud waving about how NATO et al want WW3 (when - unsurprisingly - every single country in the alliance is grappling with avoiding that at all costs whilst supporting Ukraine's resistance ) is essentially repeating and reinforcing putins nuclear sabre rattling.
