The new GWR Hitachi trains - my verdict

[SpookyFrank]

Someone got paid to design this. Various important people must have signed off on it. Unbelievable

Those seats look like they'd be pretty spine-crushing on a long journey too. Clearly this has all been done on a brief of, what's the bare minimum comfort we can get away with providing? Does it say in the terms and conditions that passengers should be able to see out of the train? Surely they can just guess when they're at the station they want?

 

[paolo]

The old class 3 stock was, in my mind, the last time we had a good train, for everyone. All the seats lined up with the windows. They were trains designed for passengers.

These days trains seeemed to be designed for capacity. Passengers are instead simply revenue.

Even on premium routes - the Eurostar say - the lighting is harsher than a new London bus. People travelling, say, 30 minutes, for a pound or so, get a nice “reading light” above their head. Meanwhile back on mainline trains, they are subject to lighting like a residential weed farm in Dorking.

 

[Bungle73]

The old class 3 stock was, in my mind, the last time we had a good train, for everyone. All the seats lined up with the windows. They were trains designed for passengers.

These days trains seeemed to be designed for capacity. Passengers are instead simply revenue.

Even on premium routes - the Eurostar say - the lighting is harsher than a new London bus. People travelling, say, 30 minutes, for a pound or so, get a nice “reading light” above their head. Meanwhile back on mainline trains, they are subject to lighting like a residential weed farm in Dorking.

How is increasing a train's capacity a "bad" thing?

And which are these trains that are not "mainline" trains which people travel on for 30 minute for "a pound" yet have reading lights? I've never seen the point of reading lights on any train, since the train main cabin lightning is never dim enough to warrant using them.

 

[Bungle73]

delete.

 

[paolo]

How is increasing a train's capacity a "bad" thing?

And which are these trains that are not "mainline" trains which people travel on for 30 minute for "a pound" yet have reading lights? I've never seen the point of reading lights on any train, since the train main cabin lightning is never dim enough to warrant using them.

You can increase train (or indeed bus, or aeroplane) capacity by all sorts of means.

It's a race to the bottom. Rather than new lines, longer platforms (ie more carriages), a bigger guage (see those Duplex TGVs, and coo) - the (far) cheaper option is to ram more people in.

 

[Bungle73]

You can increase train (or indeed bus, or aeroplane) capacity by all sorts of means.

It's a race to the bottom. Rather than new lines, longer platforms (ie more carriages), a bigger guage (see those Duplex TGVs, and coo) - the (far) cheaper option is to ram more people in.

I like that way you throw in a bigger loading gauge at the end there like it was something that could be achieved overnight, with little or no work and on a shoe string budget. It can't. It would take billions and billions of pounds, and years....probably decades....of work, and that's if it was even possible on some routes. The new line we have coming atm, HS2, is causing enough agro as it is.

 

[Bungle73]

None of those are the responsibility of the train companies anyway. They have to work with what they have, and what the DfT gives them.

 

[paolo]

I like that way you throw in a bigger loading gauge at the end there like it was something that could be achieved overnight, with little or no work and on a shoe string budget. It can't. It would take billions and billions of pounds, and years....probably decades....of work, and that's if it was even possible on some routes. The new line we have coming atm, HS2, is causing enough agro as it is.

Indeed. On all but the smallest far flung routes, a bigger loading gauge would be astronomically expensive.

BUT... Oh the race to the bottom otherwise.

 

[hipipol]

nothing wrong with that. and if they can't get a job on the first bit of the train, they can walk to the second part at the next stop.

So, no Buffet, but an old board HR dept????

 

[Pickman's model]

So, no Buffet, but an old board HR dept????

Welcome aboard this U75 express thread

 

[editor]

A friend just posted this:

Now on one of GWR's new multi million pound flagship fleet. Gone is the buffet car, oh no, we can't have anything that civilised, in favour of trolleys. And the trolley has no hot water due to a fault. So no tea or coffee. This is a brand new train, remember. And far from the advertised improved wifi, there's no wifi at all on this train.

 

[SikhWarrioR]

On another note, there sure seems to be a lot of staff onboard - with the train being split into two parts, it needs two sets of guards, train managers, trolley buffet staff etc. Madness!

One would have thought that APT would have made them think as that had train split by the power cars??

 

[editor]

Just got back on another journey on the new trains. Once again, the seat reservation system wasn't working. Got an old school 125 back and felt the buffet love.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

the other snag is that the last minute rush at Paddington means a heck of a lot of people get on at the back and walk through to the front middle as the train departs...

 

[Tankus]

. Got an old school 125 back and felt the buffet love.

It was the future , once...!

 

[Crispy]

As I understand it, the split formation is temporary. There are 9-car sets coming for the main London-Wales line, which will release the 5-car sets for individual running on non-mainline routes, or continued 10-car running on some routes (eg. Penzance)

 

[editor]

As I understand it, the split formation is temporary. There are 9-car sets coming for the main London-Wales line, which will release the 5-car sets for individual running on non-mainline routes, or continued 10-car running on some routes (eg. Penzance)

Will that bring the buffet car back? There's no way a trolley service would be able to make it through a packed 10-car Cardiff train. Shame 'GWR' are so shit at communicating any of this too.

 

[Crispy]

Will that bring the buffet car back? There's no way a trolley service would be able to make it through a packed 10-car Cardiff train. Shame 'GWR' are so shit at communicating any of this too.

Nope, no buffet car Just a kitchen at the far end of 1st class so they can get their table service, just like the 5-car.

These seating plans are from 2012, and I believe the only differences are: no 8-car version. 9-car has two 1st-class cars, not 2+1/2.



http://www.fofnl.org.uk/archives/iep-train-layouts.pdf

 

[editor]

Nope, no buffet car Just a kitchen at the far end of 1st class so they can get their table service, just like the 5-car.

These seating plans are from 2012, and I believe the only differences are: no 8-car version. 9-car has two 1st-class cars, not 2+1/2.

View attachment 124495

http://www.fofnl.org.uk/archives/iep-train-layouts.pdf

Some of the trains to Cardiff are so packed people fill the aisles and end up sitting on their bags by the doors so this is a fucking stupid bit of design. Just getting to the nearest toilet can be an ordeal, so people waiting for a trolley to arrive are going to be screwed. Still, as long as the folks in first class are OK

 

[skyscraper101]

Trolley service sucks and they are an aisle blocking nuisance, but let's not overrate buffet cars either. Sure they are better than nothing, but are they ever not an overpriced, underwhelming experience of bland sandwiches, canned lager and machine based hot drinks?

 

[editor]

Trolley service sucks and they are an aisle blocking nuisance, but let's not overrate buffet cars either. Sure they are better than nothing, but are they ever not an overpriced, underwhelming experience of bland sandwiches, canned lager and machine based hot drinks?

They serve better hot drinks than a trolley for starters, and have a far wider selection of sandwiches, toasties etc. And some of the food isn't that bad either.

 

[Slo-mo]

It's a question of bad vs awful for sure, but I'd go with the buffet cars.

 

[souljacker]

Some of the trains to Cardiff are so packed people fill the aisles and end up sitting on their bags by the doors so this is a fucking stupid bit of design. Just getting to the nearest toilet can be an ordeal, so people waiting for a trolley to arrive are going to be screwed. Still, as long as the folks in first class are OK

Don't they usually empty out at Reading though? It always seems to me the majority of the train gets off there on the GWR services.

That's why I miss the buffet car. The trolley never gets passed the first couple of carriages before we get to Reading and I disembark. I'll need to try and remember to get a couple of beers from that massively overpriced whistlestop at paddington in the future.

 

[mx wcfc]

Don't they usually empty out at Reading though? It always seems to me the majority of the train gets off there on the GWR services.

That's why I miss the buffet car. The trolley never gets passed the first couple of carriages before we get to Reading and I disembark. I'll need to try and remember to get a couple of beers from that massively overpriced whistlestop at paddington in the future.

Check out M&S's beer selection at stations. Not stupidly overpriced and they have some half decent beers. Their pre-mixed cans are OK too. Best value I've seen at a station - certainly better than Whistlestop.

 

[Dogsauce]

What are they going to do with the cascaded stock after IEPs are introduced? The east coast Class 91 + Mk4 stock are pretty decent trains, are they likely to end up on East Anglian routes, the usual home of cast-offs (currently served by ex-WCML push pull units & cl90s)

 

[souljacker]

Check out M&S's beer selection at stations. Not stupidly overpriced and they have some half decent beers. Their pre-mixed cans are OK too. Best value I've seen at a station - certainly better than Whistlestop.

I'm not sure there is an M&S at Paddington is there? Sainsburys is much cheaper but they won't let you split a 4 pack and even I'd struggle to do 4 cans between paddington and Reading.

 

[mx wcfc]

I'm not sure there is an M&S at Paddington is there? Sainsburys is much cheaper but they won't let you split a 4 pack and even I'd struggle to do 4 cans between paddington and Reading.

It's next door to Sainsbury's. at the back (furthest from the trains) inside that food court thing, off to the right, hidden away a bit, but it's there. I may have an opportunity to check tomorrow.

 

[Crispy]

What are they going to do with the cascaded stock after IEPs are introduced? The east coast Class 91 + Mk4 stock are pretty decent trains, are they likely to end up on East Anglian routes, the usual home of cast-offs (currently served by ex-WCML push pull units & cl90s)

They were probably going to the MML after electrification. That's been cancelled now so I have no idea.

 

[Dogsauce]

They were probably going to the MML after electrification. That's been cancelled now so I have no idea.

I had a nose around Wikipedia which details a plan to use them by an open access operator running to Blackpool. They'll need certifying to use the WCML and will be limited to 110mph as non-tilting trains. I Also checked that that electrification to Blackpool is still going ahead and wasn't one of the cancelled ones (it's not). That'll only account for a few sets - but can't see them scrapping the others, although they are nearly 30 years old now which is a good innings! My brain just thinks of them as 'new' trains. Final bit of BR's design legacy.

 

[doodlelogic]

I like that way you throw in a bigger loading gauge at the end there like it was something that could be achieved overnight, with little or no work and on a shoe string budget. It can't. It would take billions and billions of pounds, and years....probably decades....of work, and that's if it was even possible on some routes. The new line we have coming atm, HS2, is causing enough agro as it is.

HS2 is a good idea among other reasons because it has a much larget loading guage, at eu standards.