invisibleplanet
porter des cornes
The Children of a Vanished World are waiting ...
the neoliberal vision of the future
- Thread starter Dillinger4
- Start date
Please answer this question, Onar.
invisibleplanet
porter des cornes
Onar Åm, Who are these "mainstream holocaust researchers"?
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
No it's Himmler's attempt at a defence; do you think it holds water?
I didn't originally refer to the jews. I was pointing out the existence of plans for systematic killing, killing which went onto include extermination camps where not only jews met their deaths.
You are squirming, but no amount of wriggling will get you away from the questions as to your preferred holocaust historians and scientists; so lets be having them.
Louis MacNeice
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
You have got to wonder about somebody so deeply obsessed with fascism.
Well, EVERYONE I presume, including all researchers who are not Holocaust deniers. Frankly I am surprised that this is taken as a controversial statement and that for some mysterious reason now all of a sudden everyone thinks I am a Holocaust denier. What's wrong with you people? Here I've spent something like 50 pages explaining that you guys have more in common with the Nazis than you think and it should be quite clear from my writing that I think Nazism is evil, and then all of a sudden *I* am a Nazi supporter!?!?!? How is that level of evasion and mind twisting contradiction even possible without your brains exploding?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Jean Amery is waiting...
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
invisibleplanet
porter des cornes
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
You can say you are against fascism as much as you like, and accuse everybody else of being fascists. But your 'arguments' suggest another thing entirely. Something you don't really seem aware of.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
Everyone you presume? But you don't actually know? Surely you know what you have read which has informed your opinions?
If it is "everyone" as you presume, then you can name one. Can't you?
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
It's hard to come up with a more politically feeble narrative than Onar's 'you're all fascists', but you've done it; simultaneously useless and smug.
Louis MacNeice
invisibleplanet
porter des cornes
No, he first needs to give the citations, harvard reference style will be fine.
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
I hope all the people who read his blog see this.
TruXta
tired
What makes you think they'd be surprised?
I explicitly asked for references to concrete plans to exterminate the Jews, because I was unaware of any such plan. Whether Himmler's attempt at a defence holds water or not is completely irrelevant, because at least it is very clear that his defence in no way is an admission of an extermination plan.
Sorry, then I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about extermination plans, not of individuals, but of a plan to systematically wipe out an entire people (or race as Hitler would call it).
I don't have any preferred holocaust historians. I have read quite a bit on the holocaust and as far as I can tell I am in no way making any remotely controversial statements here. Remember, I never said that the holocaust didn't happen. I said that there was no physical evidence of industrial scale deliberate extermination of Jews. Of course the mainstream scientists and the holocaust deniers have very different accounts of why the evidence doesn't exist (the mainstream claims the physical evidence was destroyed by the Nazis, whereas the deniers claim that the evidence never existed in the first place) but as far as I know there is no disagreement as to the lack of physical evidence.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
What books have you read on the holocaust?
invisibleplanet
porter des cornes
Give your references, Onar Åm. Again, you evade giving references.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
This is what happens when you so empty a term of meaning - as you have done with fascism - it becomes useless; so useless that you cannot even apply it in a reflexive way.
Louis MacNeice
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
Revisionist.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Come on, Onarchy, do as blagsta asks. Name one.
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
And give us some numbers as well. How many died, and how did it happen?
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
1. Himmler's explanation is pertinent; do you take it at face value as an explanation for the systematic - i.e. planned - destruction of millions of people (his position), or do you have a better account to offer?
2. I was talking about extermination plans of entire social groups (not just defined by race); the planned extermination of the mentally ill for example.
3. The evidence of the industrial scale of the deaths, is there in the missing populations; how many people do you think were killed?
Louis MacNeice
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Primo's waiting...
And boy is he pissed.
It's can't be that hard since you've been doing it throughout the thread.
invisibleplanet
porter des cornes
Not now, Kizmet.
That would be tedious and probably result in endless accusations based in the bias of sources.
It's far simpler to clear the argument up by asking a straight numbers question.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Yep ...
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