the neoliberal vision of the future

[TruXta]

Can't remember the name of the thread. Can't you search for banned posters' posts? Ed changed his poster name too to disguise his real name a bit.

That's alright, it's not that important. In fact, I should probably stick my nose back into work for a bit...

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yeah, his whole 'it's ok to rape socialists with dogs' thing is quite worrying too ...

Bear in mind that he's sexually impotent.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm going to have to read this Goldberg book it sounds hilarious:

“The white male is the Jew of liberal fascism.”

“What distinguished Nazism from other brands of socialism and communism […] was that it forthrightly included a worldview we now associate almost completely with the political left: identity politics.”

“Adolf Hitler: Man of the Left”

“Woodrow Wilson was the twentieth century’s first fascist dictator

 

[nino_savatte]

Banned. It was actually a bit of a sorry spectacle in the end. The man was breaking up mentally before our very eyes.

Oh... somehow I don't think Onan will go the same way.

 

[Dillinger4]

Thread link? Morbidly curious.

It's not worth it.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's not worth it.

No, it's not. He was banned for his own good in the end.

 

[nino_savatte]

This Goldberg fella sounds remarkably similar to Australia's John J. Ray
http://jonjayray.tripod.com/

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Robert Paxton mentioned there, his Anatomy Of Fascism is excellent.

The Chip Bertlet article he links is also excellent stuff on where the ideas in that book came from (John Birch Society mostly)

http://www.hnn.us/articles/122245.html

 

[TruXta]

Yeah yeah, I already said I wasn't that bothered!

 

[Dillinger4]

The Chip Bertlet article he links is also excellent stuff on where the ideas in that book came from (John Birch Society mostly)

http://www.hnn.us/articles/122245.html

Excellent. Chip Berlet is an excellent writer.

And I seem to be encountering the John Birch Society in a lot of things I am reading at the moment. They are mental.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Thanks for the links Bernie - I edited the post once I saw them but it seems I was a bit too late I see Paxton's Anatomy of Fascism is recommended above. I'd also recommend it to anyone wanting to understand the nature of fascism, which isn't easy. It was the first serious book I read on the subject and it helped me massively.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Well Marinetti invented squadrism when he and his mates attacked the PSI's paper's offices in 1919, and he wanted to expel the pope.

To be fair, before the Lateran treaty was signed, the Pope was pretty much on Italian territory on sufferance, the big dress-wearing jessie.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Just fuck off cunt.

Nah.


Every board should have a "village idiot". Onar makes a good one.

 

[TruXta]

Nah.


Every board should have a "village idiot". Onar makes a good one.

I thought we had dwyer filling that position, alongside Jazzz?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Nah.


Every board should have a "village idiot". Onar makes a good one.

I don't feel at all guilty calling him a cunt, either. Which is nice.

 

[butchersapron]

Chip Berlet is someone to be wary of politically - he's not beyond smearing people he sees as extremists - left included. I'm reading the piece mentioned above later today, so that's not a comment on that one in particular.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Chip Berlet is someone to be wary of politically - he's not beyond smearing people he sees as extremists - left included. I'm reading the piece mentioned above later today, so that's not a comment on that one in particular.

Interesting comment. I've come across Berlet before as a very knowledgeable source on the US far-right, but don't know much about him beyond that.

 

[ViolentPanda]

This is some of the crudest stuff i've ever read on fascism.

Onar's posts have made me laugh so much over the last couple of days that my sides are aching painfully. It's like debating a sixth-former who's studying fr a politics A level. He's absorbed a few basic facts, become enamoured of them and now he's trying to shoe-horn all of reality into fitting with those facts, however much the shoe-horning distorts them.

I suspect that as a politician this sort of dissembling and editing of history is meat and drink to him, but as someone daring to title himself "philosopher", he should have disembowelled himself in shame long ago.

 

[nino_savatte]

Were they? I know their aesthetic foreshadowed a lot of fascism, but I didn't know they'd been more explicitly political.

They actually began as a literary movement and moved from that to art and then into politics after WWI. Marinetti founded the Futurist Political Party which was absorbed into the Mussolini's fascist party in the early 20's iirc.

 

[butchersapron]

Interesting comment. I've come across Berlet before as a very knowledgeable source on the US far-right, but don't know much about him beyond that.

Active non-mainstream anti-fascists and anti-racists in the US (esp those who favour physical opposition) tend to keep him at arms length. There's been debates running about his activity for as long as i've been on the internet and i know they were running before that.

 

[nino_savatte]

Excellent. Chip Berlet is an excellent writer.

And I seem to be encountering the John Birch Society in a lot of things I am reading at the moment. They are mental.

The JBS, the self-styled protectors of the capitalist world from the tyranny of socialism.

 

[SpineyNorman]

@VP - have you debated Farrage then? I'd love to have been a fly on the wall for that one And I agree - Onar should stick around - he's amusing. Shame about this thread mind, could have been really informative. Looks like it's been permanently derailed now though.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Active non-mainstream anti-fascists and anti-racists in the US (esp those who favour physical opposition) tend to keep him at arms length. There's been debates running about his activity for as long as i've been on the internet and i know they were running before that.

Ah OK, I get the picture ...

Still though, he's written some good stuff.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It is worth pointing out to onarchy that he is a social darwinist, just like Hitler. He doesn't see it.

I'm not sure whether he's called himself a social Darwinist, but while he might revel in the idea of "survival of the fittest" in it's most "red in tooth and claw" formulation, it's hardly likely that this übermensch manque is going to be one of those that survive, is it?

Possibly, what he actually means isn't social Darwinism, but some fantasy scenario where he and his fellow-travellers survive to re-enact the more sodomistic and verbose parts of "Atlas Shrugged".

 

[butchersapron]

Btw, there's a useful brief primer (pdf) on the Griffin site about the 'new consensus' (as he self-trumpets it) around the definition of fascism on his blog

 

[TruXta]

The New New Consensus? Jesus Jones.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm not sure whether he's called himself a social Darwinist, but while he might revel in the idea of "survival of the fittest" in it's most "red in tooth and claw" formulation, it's hardly likely that this übermensch manque is going to be one of those that survive, is it?

Possibly, what he actually means isn't social Darwinism, but some fantasy scenario where he and his fellow-travellers survive to re-enact the more sodomistic and verbose parts of "Atlas Shrugged".

No, my whole point is that he is a Social Darwinist, with all the contradictions and nastiness that this idiotic misunderstanding of biology entails, but doesn't himself see this. He does not at all understand the nature of the very thing he is advocating.

 

[Dillinger4]

The JBS, the self-styled protectors of the capitalist world from the tyranny of socialism.

Whenever I think of the John Birch Society, I always end up thinking of the character on Dr Strangelove who wants to protect his fluids.

 

[ViolentPanda]

@VP - have you debated Farrage then? I'd love to have been a fly on the wall for that one

Not formally. Back when the Libertarian Alliance was around I (literally) bumped into him at some publisher's soiree (I think it might have been for Janes) and got chatting with him (he was surprisingly easy to talk with in person, not at all like he's always come across on telly) about how unlikely it was that "fringe parties" would ever gain traction in British national politics, not due to having crap causes, but because their ideas of strategy and tactics were so basic that the big parties would run rings around them. He agreed, but said that as that was the case, it left an opening for any party that took a long view, and actually bothered to develop a decent strategy, and then made the right tactical moves.

I'd say that going on UKIP's performance, I had the right of it.

And I agree - Onar should stick around - he's amusing. Shame about this thread mind, could have been really informative. Looks like it's been permanently derailed now though.

Yup.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Farage has always come across to me as someone who would be easy to talk to and easy to get along with.

This is a crap anecdote, but anyway, there was a left-wing person who met with a notorious right-wing person, and whose comment afterwards was something along the lines of 'I liked him. By God, I liked the man!'

It's perfectly possible to enjoy the company of someone whose politics you despise.