The most working-class anarchist group is...

[montevideo]

I'm afraid there's more to life than just you being happy chum. If anarchism is a method ( some form of voluntary association with no leaders and no structures?) rather than an end what is the end you are striving for, is it working class rule?

no. Is your ultimate goal a classless society?

 

[LLETSA]

And your posts come across as being the product of somebody who views society as he'd like it to be, rather than how it is.... No i wasn't fetishising prisoners, never, that is the product of someones brain who wants the world as he sees it rather than how it is. As for class composition, i was on about the actual struggles that were participated in, involving prisoners, whose class composition pisses on you from a great height...

And I'd rather talk about REAL ideas in real struggles rather than stuff you carry on asserting/repeating that gets us nowhere.

Real issues? What you've written here neither addresses real issues nor answers what I've said to you. It is gibberish.

Are you pissed?

 

[LLETSA]

Who brought Italy into it?

Reply to para 3 - You were very well taken apart by montivideo, this para deserves the same. The 'stilted pseudo- sociological jargon' is infact basic Marxism, something that the British left you are apart of doesn't understand. The radical traditions of the working class in Italy are so much more impressive than ours. Contrary to the patronising attitude of lefties like you, who thinks the working class is blameless and 'can break free if', I think it takes 2 to tango, the British working class does share some responsibility for its political fate... Finally I have NO common ground with Trots, and you do (there we disagree again)...

"The 'stilted pseudo-sociological jargon is in fact basic Marxism....'" Is this laughable twaddle more of the same then or what?

 

[LLETSA]

Just wondering

And your posts come across as being the product of somebody who views society as he'd like it to be, rather than how it is.... No i wasn't fetishising prisoners, never, that is the product of someones brain who wants the world as he sees it rather than how it is. As for class composition, i was on about the actual struggles that were participated in, involving prisoners, whose class composition pisses on you from a great height...

And I'd rather talk about REAL ideas in real struggles rather than stuff you carry on asserting/repeating that gets us nowhere.

'....involving prisoners, whose class composition pisses on you from a great height.'

Is this basic Marxism as well?

 

[LLETSA]

Doing yourself no favours

As for class composition, i was on about the actual struggles that were participated in, involving prisoners, whose class composition pisses on you from a great height...

Which struggles does this sentence refer to? What, in fact, is it supposed to actually mean?

 

[Ryazan]

Try putting these in the right order if you can - EKANWR

Well, you are witty. what has Class War done, that has won loads of workers over to your beloved ideals? Nout.

 

[BAKU9]

Well, you are witty. what has Class War done, that has won loads of workers over to your beloved ideals? Nout.

Well that could be safely said for practically all on the left couldn't it?

 

[Paul Marsh]

I've just spotted a young Dave Douglas on 'Faith' addressing striking miners in some footage from '84.

Nonsense - Dave Douglass looks younger every time I see him, which is extremely sinister.

I am beginning to think all that time under ground much be good for you....

 

[charlie mowbray]

You should see the portrait painting he has stashed away in his attic

 

[kropotkin]

Lletsa et al., If you would prefer to, you can continue chipping away at the homogenous strawman anarcho-edifice you have erected by ignoring the sane posts by catch and rnb, and focusing only on attica and the class war people.

But you cannot claim that we all think the same, and in honesty you cannot smear all who come from our tradition.

 

[BAKU9]

Lletsa et al., If you would prefer to, you can continue chipping away at the homogenous strawman anarcho-edifice you have erected by ignoring the sane posts by catch and rnb, and focusing only on attica and the class war people.

But you cannot claim that we all think the same, and in honesty you cannot smear all who come from our tradition.

Er, and to be fair to the Class War people, I wouldn't count the rantings of Attica as being representative of their organisation either!

 

[kropotkin]

I agree.

 

[Paul Marsh]

Er, and to be fair to the Class War people, I wouldn't count the rantings of Attica as being representative of their organisation either!

His rantings are not representative of the group.

 

[LLETSA]

Damn you Kropotkin!

Lletsa et al., If you would prefer to, you can continue chipping away at the homogenous strawman anarcho-edifice you have erected by ignoring the sane posts by catch and rnb, and focusing only on attica and the class war people.

But you cannot claim that we all think the same, and in honesty you cannot smear all who come from our tradition.

In actual fact Attica has said more than you, Kropotkin. At least his posts are combative rather than just demanding:'withdraw those filthy lies, you scoundrel!'

I have a lot of respect for the stuff posted up by rednblack and catch; they are the only anarchists to say anything political. Both have been among the best of the anarchist posters in various threads since I've been coming on here. But let us not forget that, far from attempting to take apart anarchism, or trying to 'smear all who come from your tradition', this thread mushroomed only after I merely agreed with a poster who made the perfectly reasonable observation that anarchism does not register with almost anybody outside the anarchist movement. What seems to have sparked all the outrage is that I said that anarchist principles seem to lead to a preference for keeping it that way, something that was confirmed by anarchist posters who admitted that they don't really push anarchist ideas when they carry out practical political activity and the confusion that ensued when somebody brought up the subject of anarchist ideas regarding leadership and so on. I did not say that anarchists do nothing to publicise anarchism; what was implied in my posts was that what they do doesn't seem able to lift anarchism out of the ghetto in which it finds itself. Where did I claim that you 'all think the same,' by the way?

As for Class War, it was Attica who came on acusing me of saying things that I hadn't - and then carried on doing so. Class War has only any significance to this thread in as much as they too, in my own experience, register with the public little more than any other anarchist group, and nowhere near as much as some of its members seem to believe.

But at least Atticus has, along with catch and rnb, tried to argue politically. The wounded and paranoid tone of some of the other anarchists in response to even the mildest criticism has been little short of amazing.

It would be interesting to see how some anarchists would fare were a real test of their politics ever to come along if that is how hard they find it to cope with inoffensive comments on an internet forum.

 

[montevideo]

In actual fact Attica has said more than you, Kropotkin. At least his posts are combative rather than just demanding:'withdraw those filthy lies, you scoundrel!'

I have a lot of respect for the stuff posted up by rednblack and catch; they are the only anarchists to say anything political. Both have been among the best of the anarchist posters in various threads since I've been coming on here. But let us not forget that, far from attempting to take apart anarchism, or trying to 'smear all who come from your tradition', this thread mushroomed only after I merely agreed with a poster who made the perfectly reasonable observation that anarchism does not register with almost anybody outside the anarchist movement. What seems to have sparked all the outrage is that I said that anarchist principles seem to lead to a preference for keeping it that way, something that was confirmed by anarchist posters who admitted that they don't really push anarchist ideas when they carry out practical political activity and the confusion that ensued when somebody brought up the subject of anarchist ideas regarding leadership and so on. I did not say that anarchists do nothing to publicise anarchism; what was implied in my posts was that what they do doesn't seem able to lift anarchism out of the ghetto in which it finds itself. Where did I claim that you 'all think the same,' by the way?

As for Class War, it was Attica who came on acusing me of saying things that I hadn't - and then carried on doing so. Class War has only any significance to this thread in as much as they too, in my own experience, register with the public little more than any other anarchist group, and nowhere near as much as some of its members seem to believe.

But at least Atticus has, along with catch and rnb, tried to argue politically. The wounded and paranoid tone of some of the other anarchists in response to even the mildest criticism has been little short of amazing.

It would be interesting to see how some anarchists would fare were a real test of their politics ever to come along if that is how hard they find it to cope with inoffensive comments on an internet forum.

& what real test would this be? Arguing the toss of the interweb is simply that, arguing the toss. From what i can gather from your 100 odd posts you haven't put forward anything political of any sort whatsoever. Your 'inoffensive comments' have been sujected to ridicule, contempt, held up for criticism & generally, & genuinely, questioned. But through all that i haven't seen any of your politics, simply a reinforcing of your position by various methods, some facile, some utterly bewildering, mostly anecdotal, towards class war & anarchism in general.

Indeed we could ask now what your politics are, how far & wide you promote them & how much they register beyond the ghetto you find yourself in. I have no idea. Doubtless you'll be happy to promote & publicise your politics here, whatever they may be.

 

[LLETSA]

& what real test would this be? Arguing the toss of the interweb is simply that, arguing the toss. From what i can gather from your 100 odd posts you haven't put forward anything political of any sort whatsoever. Your 'inoffensive comments' have been sujected to ridicule, contempt, held up for criticism & generally, & genuinely, questioned. But through all that i haven't seen any of your politics, simply a reinforcing of your position by various methods, some facile, some utterly bewildering, mostly anecdotal, towards class war & anarchism in general.

Indeed we could ask now what your politics are, how far & wide you promote them & how much they register beyond the ghetto you find yourself in. I have no idea. Doubtless you'll be happy to promote & publicise your politics here, whatever they may be.

Oh and this is political is it? Funny how so many of you have focussed on what a rotter I am rather than the mild cricism I made of anarchism in the first place. Read the post fuck's sake.

 

[montevideo]

Oh and this is political is it? Funny how so many of you have focussed on what a rotter I am rather than the mild cricism I made of anarchism in the first place. Read the post fuck's sake.

yes have read them, which is why i posted what i just did. I don't particularly mind your criticism, mild or otherwise, i mind you bullshit approach & that is what i have been criticising. Give me some of your 'politics' & i will see what i can do.

 

[LLETSA]

yes have read them, which is why i posted what i just did. I don't particularly mind your criticism, mild or otherwise, i mind you bullshit approach & that is what i have been criticising. Give me some of your 'politics' & i will see what i can do.

I'll spell it out again more briefly.

1/ I backed up a poster who made a reasonable point; I got a reaction from most anarchists that was big on outrage, small on a robust defence of anarchist politics.

2/ I was not attacking anarchism in itself (nor later Class War.)

3/ I am running out of different ways of explaining these simple points.

Have you ever considered that whatever you might consider my 'bullshit approach' (a term which may or may not be down to a lack of humour on you part) might have been prompted by the silly reaction of some of the anarchists to mild, non-hostile criticism?

 

[LLETSA]

& what real test would this be? Arguing the toss of the interweb is simply that, arguing the toss.

Is this meant to be a reply to when I said:

It would be interesting to see how some anarchists would fare were a real test of their politics ever to come along if that is how hard they find it to cope with inoffensive comments on an internet forum.

It is, isn't it?

 

[Chuck Wilson]

no. Is your ultimate goal a classless society?

No , that is far too modest an ambition in my lifetime. You really need to think 'bigger picture' monty.

 

[catch]

LLETSA,

Since you've not disagreed with either mine or rednblack's posts on this thread, am I to assume that you agree with them? And if you do disagree could you say in what way your own politics differ?

 

[Chuck Wilson]

No doubt some of the anarchists on here will have no doubt already seen it ( and perhaps contributed?) but I had a look at the enrager boards and there is a very mixed thread on Class War and its politics.Apart from a couple of posts nobody really identifies their politics or an alternative and the Gangster, formally The Black Hand, makes a complete twat of himself. Or is it the gangster? and which version of Class War are we discussing?

 

[montevideo]

I'll spell it out again more briefly.

1/ I backed up a poster who made a reasonable point; I got a reaction from most anarchists that was big on outrage, small on a robust defence of anarchist politics.

2/ I was not attacking anarchism in itself (nor later Class War.)

3/ I am running out of different ways of explaining these simple points.

Have you ever considered that whatever you might consider my 'bullshit approach' (a term which may or may not be down to a lack of humour on you part) might have been prompted by the silly reaction of some of the anarchists to mild, non-hostile criticism?

1/ i can't speak on behalf of what others have said, i initially pulled you up on your post; it being based on gossip & hearsay (& not political insight) to reinforce your point coupled with a flawed representation of The Working Class. If others choose to defend 'their' anarchism their way that is entirely up to them. I don't think we are in disagreement here.

2/ whatever you are attacking i am criticising your bullshit approach that masks a lack of political insight.

3/ the feeling is mutual

Now if you want you explain what your particular brand of politics is then do so & i'll be more than willing to engage.

It would be interesting to see how some anarchists would fare were a real test of their politics ever to come along if that is how hard they find it to cope with inoffensive comments on an internet forum

what real test would this be? Simply repeating vague & imcomprehensive assertions doesn't really work does it?

 

[montevideo]

No , that is far too modest an ambition in my lifetime. You really need to think 'bigger picture' monty.

Obviously way over my head, so give me a hint of this bigger picture.

So you want working class rule but not a classless society as your ultimate goal yes?

 

[catch]

Chuck, I'm the same username on enrager, but don't really understand that post, there's been loads of threads on enrager that end up with slanging matches between various people and gangster, you'd have to link to a specific one.

 

[Chuck Wilson]

Obviously way over my head, so give me a hint of this bigger picture.

So you want working class rule but not a classless society as your ultimate goal yes?

It was a joke Monty.

 

[montevideo]

It was a joke Monty.

like i say, way over my head.

 

[Chuck Wilson]

Chuck, I'm the same username on enrager, but don't really understand that post, there's been loads of threads on enrager that end up with slanging matches between various people and gangster, you'd have to link to a specific one.

enrager.net forums Forum Index -> General Discussion -> General -> CLASS WAR - simply the best

It starts with :

AT first, i fell in love with the working class culture and language used. Then, it was the attitude and action that I adored. Then the poll tax came along and it was a marriage made in heaven.

I tried the other girls, but they really didn't move the earth for me. They still don't, they are about as frigid and as politically dynamic as the Jehovas Witnesses.

I've had my doubts, but my one true love is the class war and Class War

by Gangster , for whom I am increasingly worried about his health.

 

[ernestolynch]

Was that written by Sue Townsend?

enrager is a minefield of ammo.

"We should bring the samba drummers to the estates near my halls of uni, and the chavs will realise where their anger should be directed and fight the state for us!"

"Real anarchists should send their kids to private school to escape the influence of the state"


TWO REAL QUOTES FROM ENRAGER IN THE LAST YEAR

 

[audiotech]

Avoid the scarcasm and watch a thousand flowers bloom.