The job hunting support thread

[furluxor]

Thanks Puddy_Tat and AnnO'Neemus. I think I'd heard previously that I'm supposed to address person spec point-by-point. Today I met a friend who advised me to focus on "achievements" (rather than "responsibilities") from the previous jobs, which strikes me as being similar to what you highlighted, too. I'll have a three-person panel. I'm not really nervous at this point, interviews usually go in my favour. It's the getting to interview stage that's hard.

 

[frogwoman]

Got offered an interview for tomorrow and a couple of things seem red flags, I don't know. They seem absolutely desperate to fill the role - a recruitment consultant contacted me yesterday about it. The time slot they offered was one when I usually do some volunteering and they said they couldn't do any other time. I don't see how my CV makes me very suited to the job either which makes me think they've not had many applicants. Hmm

 

[ouirdeaux]

I have to write a personal statement in an application for an internal position. There is a maximum of 1500 words. Should I be aiming for this, or will about 750 do? I have not quite hit 500, and am losing the will to live.

Also, I am not supposed to include 'personal details'. What does this mean? Saying that I did X Y and Z is my capacity as a whatever, which makes me a suitable candidate for the post, is including personal details, surely?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I have to write a personal statement in an application for an internal position. There is a maximum of 1500 words. Should I be aiming for this, or will about 750 do? I have not quite hit 500, and am losing the will to live.

Also, I am not supposed to include 'personal details'. What does this mean? Saying that I did X Y and Z is my capacity as a whatever, which makes me a suitable candidate for the post, is including personal details, surely?

Is this the sort of personal statement where you're explaining why / how you meet each bit of a person specification or similar? (fairly common in public sector) - I sometimes find it hard to get these down to a word count, not up to one.

This bit is what they are going to use to decide who to short list, so I'd say make the best use of it to say what experience / skills you have got that are right for the job and aim to get close to the word count. (I tend to do these things in Word or something rather than straight on to their website - makes editing easier, guards against their website crashing, and it's easier to recycle it for another job application some other time)

As an internal candidate, presume your application is being scored against external candidates? So don't fall in to the trap of thinking you don't need to say stuff (either in the application or the interview) because they already know you. If they are doing it as an open exercise, they won't / shouldn't make assumptions, and will only score you on what you put on paper / what you say on the day. And don't expect them to know exactly what you do based on your current / recent job titles - there's some jobs where it's obvious but an increasing number where it's not.

Not sure if 'personal details' here means you're not supposed to name the organisation/s you work for / have worked for - I don't think I've quite met that one. Some places say you shouldn't include your name, or the name of specific school / university in this sort of thing.

Without knowing what you do / where you work, could you phrase it something like 'I have 10 years' experience of dealing with incident responses as a safety manager at a major nuclear power facility' rather than 'at Springfield nuclear power station'?

 

[ouirdeaux]

If that's all it means, fine.

The position is restricted to internal candidates, which makes me feel weird listing my current duties. The job I'm applying for involves constant contact with people doing what I'm doing now. They know exactly what we do, having all done it themselves at some point, and their job is to make sure we do it adequately. If I had moved to a slightly different area of the organisation for a spell, it might have a point.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

If that's all it means, fine.

The position is restricted to internal candidates, which makes me feel weird listing my current duties. The job I'm applying for involves constant contact with people doing what I'm doing now. They know exactly what we do, having all done it themselves at some point, and their job is to make sure we do it adequately. If I had moved to a slightly different area of the organisation for a spell, it might have a point.

Maybe a bit odd if it's internal candidates only - but may be procedure that they handle all vacancies in the same way.

Broadly, it's maybe a paragraph (or maybe two - depends how technical you want to get) addressing each of the essential / desirable requirements they have listed, and while there's a need to set the scene, make it about what you (individual) did / achieved more than what you (team) did. and if it's the sort of job you can list achievements rather than responsibilities (as came up a day or two back) all the better. some jobs have obvious 'achievements', but it can be about keeping a service going reliably. there's some jobs nobody notices until they aren't done or until something goes wrong.

there's one example i've used in interviews where the achievement was that the public didn't notice anything happen because of a lot of work was put in to deal with / avert a balls up (not of my / our making) that could have been serious.

also be aware that at least one of the people scoring it might be an HR person rather than a line manager who understands the job, so don't use too much jargon.

 

[ouirdeaux]

Well, it's done, and it makes me cringe. I won't get the job, unless all the other candidates are struck by lightening, but I'll be hurt if I don't make it to the assessment/interview stage. Why do I humiliate myself in this way?

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Well, it's done, and it makes me cringe. I won't get the job, unless all the other candidates are struck by lightening, but I'll be hurt if I don't make it to the assessment/interview stage. Why do I humiliate myself in this way?

Don't be so hard on yourself and don't sell yourself short. Your skills and experience will be similar to other internal candidates so you're all in with a chance.

As for it making you cringe, if you're not going to blow your own trumpet when trying to sell yourself in a job application, when are you?

Good luck! x

 

[Orang Utan]

An opportunity has arisen for advancement.
Unfortunately, the job description is massively wide-ranging and generic, despite it being a more specialist role.
So, even though it’s a generic job description, it finishes by saying I’d be expected to deliver on one of three different areas, going on to specify them. I’m really not interested in one of them, but dunno if I’m expected to be interested in all three.
I am finding the process very confusing and am inclined to fuck the whole thing off. I want to specialise but the drift in JDs has been towards the generic and to emphasise flexibility and I’m half inclined to complain that such JDs are discriminatory towards my neurotype

 

[newme]

An opportunity has arisen for advancement.
Unfortunately, the job description is massively wide-ranging and generic, despite it being a more specialist role.
So, even though it’s a generic job description, it finishes by saying I’d be expected to deliver on one of three different areas, going on to specify them. I’m really not interested in one of them, but dunno if I’m expected to be interested in all three.
I am finding the process very confusing and am inclined to fuck the whole thing off. I want to specialise but the drift in JDs has been towards the generic and to emphasise flexibility and I’m half inclined to complain that such JDs are discriminatory towards my neurotype

My job description says I manage 3 people, had a mild panic when i got offered senior as they had 3 roles available but 2 positions (funding i guess). I don't manage anyone and half of it is nonsense.

Job description for a previous role was so different by the end of working there it was totally inaccurate. Even the title made no sense. Which also no job site I found in that 8 months of searching recognised.

Can you get more information to work from? Vague can just be they used an old template and didn't alter it properly. Seen ones going out that were 7 years old at one place.

Surely they must know if there are 3 areas which ones are already filled.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

An opportunity has arisen for advancement.
Unfortunately, the job description is massively wide-ranging and generic, despite it being a more specialist role.
So, even though it’s a generic job description, it finishes by saying I’d be expected to deliver on one of three different areas, going on to specify them. I’m really not interested in one of them, but dunno if I’m expected to be interested in all three.
I am finding the process very confusing and am inclined to fuck the whole thing off. I want to specialise but the drift in JDs has been towards the generic and to emphasise flexibility and I’m half inclined to complain that such JDs are discriminatory towards my neurotype

I used to assume that organisations ideally wanted someone with all* the skills and experience listed, but apparently they don't.

It's just a wish list.

It's like when you see a job advertised that has a salary range of £25-45k or something like, which looks a bit weird, and it turns out that they're open to hiring someone junior or senior, depending on what applications they receive and who they appoint.

Also job descriptions maybe haven't been updated for years, especially if there's low turnover, and/or it was written by someone in HR who doesn't understand the role.

Is there a name/number on the job as for someone to contact for a chat about the vacancy? Or can you use an internal directory to find the hiring manager/line manager and call/email to ask them to clarify?

 

[Orang Utan]

I messaged the contact - only got a Teams text chat with them as they had appointments and they weren’t that forthcoming, but I think they were hinting for me to concentrate on one particular area of the three, which is the one I’m most interested in.
But I think I still have to address every single requirement in the JD, despite all that. Just seems a massive waste of time for both parties to pretend a job’s duties is more wide-ranging than it is. There are duties listed that I doubt I’ll be asked to carry out and their are line management duties which I would be reluctant to get involved with, but may not end up having to do.
It’s all a bit offputting. There’s a lot of emphasis on flexibility, which I also think is potentially discriminating.

A general moan about careers here:
‘career development’ is a bit of a trap to me. I like my non-management job and most opportunities I see would push me in a managerial direction, taking me further away from the aspects of the job that attracted me and that I am good at. Feels like I’m destined for the bottom rung unless there are opportunities to specialise rather than progress up a managerial ladder.

 

[MrSki]

I once asked someone to write a replacement job advert for their post.
She came back with something too specific. When I asked her how many of the essential skills she possessed before taking the post, it turns out it was hardly any and she had actually learnt most of these in post.
Got her to revise it reflected the skills she had coming into the job rather than when leaving it.

 

[ruffneck23]

Just had my first interview after 6 months in the wildness, was a technical interview, mind went blank for a couple of questions which I couldn't answer, really not confident.

Gonna go for a pint to commiserate.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Job hunting nowadays be wild.

I left a job a few months ago, which had three elements to it (supporting a sales team plus marketing plus something else), in part because the boss sacked the finance assistant for making mistakes (paying invoices twice) and then asked me to take on some aspects of that role, ie so my job would've had four elements including finance tasks (after my boss tried and failed to recruit a replacement, probably because of paying around/just above minimum wage while expecting someone to have finance experience and professional qualifications), and in part because of health and safety failures resulting in me sustaining a reportable injury, and in part because of my boss' unethical behaviour relating to lack of supply chain transparency and not disclosing to customers that a supplier had changed a processing method and a product that was previously suitable for vegans wasn't any longer.

I've also previously had another job that was supposed to be a full-time grants administrator, that turned out to be three days grants administrator, one day project administrator, one day general office administrator, but also required me to cover for another vacant admin role and mostly answer the phones/cover reception 9-5 M-F, and the grants manager expected me to do five days grants admin, because he kept pointing out, by way of criticism, that the other grants administrator, who was part-time, four days a week, seemed to be doing more work than me. Well, quite, she works four days a week as a grants administrator, I only have three days a week allocated to grants administration, despite working full-time, because I was being pulled in three different directions while being expected to also be receptionist and switchboard operator.

Years ago, I had a job working for a workaholic boss that involved a ridiculous amount of overtime, and when I left I was literally replaced by two people, each of whom were paid more than I was.

Am sick of being expected to do the work of two or three people, mostly for peanuts.

Anyway, just saw a corker of a job ad:

Team coordinator and administrator with a consultancy firm in London, paying £22,800 for 3 days a week (£38,000 FTE)

They expect all this can be done in three days a week:

Office Management (10%)
Executive Assistance To Directors (25%)
Full BRODIE Team Support (25%)
Finance Support (20%)
Meeting & Events (10%)
Ad Hoc Support (10%)

Bearing in mind they have two founding directors and four consulting directors as part of their directorate, plus the full team that this coordinator/administrator is supposed to support comprises 16 staff and what look like seven expert/consultants...

Plus! Plus! On top of which, the jokers expect that: "Initially responsible for supporting UK based team members only, we also envisage a future where you provide ad hoc support to our new US based operation, as it becomes established."

Team Coordinator and Administrator

Due to the recent growth of BRODIE as an organisation, the need for a strong and proactive Team Coordinator has been identified. In this new position, which you will have an opportunity to shape as ...

www.environmentjob.co.uk

I'm heartily sick of blood-sucking fucking capitalism.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

‘career development’ is a bit of a trap to me. I like my non-management job and most opportunities I see would push me in a managerial direction, taking me further away from the aspects of the job that attracted me and that I am good at. Feels like I’m destined for the bottom rung unless there are opportunities to specialise rather than progress up a managerial ladder.

i know what you mean.

if the opportunity came up to move up a level where i am now, it would mean being first level supervisor, and dealing with leave requests, pointless annual reviews, pointless back to work interviews and all that sort of bollocks. (although redundancy looks more likely than a chance to move up)

i am contemplating something i've seen - it's similar to previous job but slightly higher level (or maybe similar sort of level but certainly more money and bigger organisation so looks like there'd be a bit more support rather than being a one person department) - have a feeling it's a bit out of my league (because of the money on offer) but wonder if i should. i've got until end of next week to throw an application together.

it's also a bit further away from london - could just be commutable (but a pain in the tail) from here, but can't help thinking it will cause a huge row with mum-tat.

waiting for redundancy isn't really worth it - i've only been with current employer a few years so i'd get about a month's pay as redundancy - assuming they don't try and 'redeploy' me to something i can't / don't want to do.

blargh.

 

[Sue]

i am contemplating something i've seen - it's similar to previous job but slightly higher level (or maybe similar sort of level but certainly more money and bigger organisation so looks like there'd be a bit more support rather than being a one person department) - have a feeling it's a bit out of my league (because of the money on offer) but wonder if i should. i've got until end of next week to throw an application together.

it's also a bit further away from london - could just be commutable (but a pain in the tail) from here, but can't help thinking it will cause a huge row with mum-tat.

Go for it! -- nothing ventured, nothing gained. And if they offer you it, you can worry about the practicalities then.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Go for it! -- nothing ventured, nothing gained. And if they offer you it, you can worry about the practicalities then.

thanks. I have a letter from something a couple of years ago I can recycle.

Also seen an advert for more or less what I do now, but with a local authority nearer home. hmm.

 

[thismoment]

Anyone else have what I can only describe as a pathological problem with applying for jobs? I’ve missed out on more than 2 jobs this month that I could’ve got to interview stage and maybe even job based on my experience BUT I didn’t apply for. I get the worst anxiety like a panic when it comes to applications. Then I don’t do it. If I had done the application, got the interview, got the job, this would’ve been my last week at a job I hate. Madness innit!

 

[Orang Utan]

Anyone else have what I can only describe as a pathological problem with applying for jobs? I’ve missed out on more than 2 jobs this month that I could’ve got to interview stage and maybe even job based on my experience BUT I didn’t apply for. I get the worst anxiety like a panic when it comes to applications. Then I don’t do it. If I had done the application, got the interview, got the job, this would’ve been my last week at a job I hate. Madness innit!

Yeah, I did it last week. Probably blown my last opportunity for advancement and thinking I’m stuck here for the next sixteen years. Sucks, doesn’t it?

 

[thismoment]

Yeah, I did it last week. Probably blown my last opportunity for advancement and thinking I’m stuck here for the next sixteen years. Sucks, doesn’t it?

Oh it does!! I’m sorry! They’ll be another job but you’ll have to apply for it, we have to. Not sure how. But we have to because it doesn’t make sense to keep losing these opportunities.

 

[Orang Utan]

Oh it does!! I’m sorry! They’ll be another job but you’ll have to apply for it, we have to. Not sure how. But we have to because it doesn’t make sense to keep losing these opportunities.

not sure about that tbh. Their job description made it clear that they don’t want people like me

 

[thismoment]

so maybe this is particular job wasn’t the right one for you and it’s not the worst that you didn’t apply?

 

[thismoment]

I don’t know. I’m taking out of my arse. Maybe if we just apply for any job, suitable or not, it’ll make it easier to then apply for the job we really want and is a good fit. Who knows hey

 

[Orang Utan]

so maybe this is particular job wasn’t the right one for you and it’s not the worst that you didn’t apply?

It was just right for me, but I still would have had to ‘prove’ I could do other things in the JD, even though in all likelihood I would never be asked to do them.
I think it’s down to cutbacks. All job descriptions to be made as generic as possible, even if the role is not.

 

[Orang Utan]

But also it’s to do with crippling lack of self-esteem and impostor syndrome. So the usual jobseeking anxiety really

 

[thismoment]

Yeah, I hear you. Similar feelings here

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Anyone else have what I can only describe as a pathological problem with applying for jobs? I’ve missed out on more than 2 jobs this month that I could’ve got to interview stage and maybe even job based on my experience BUT I didn’t apply for. I get the worst anxiety like a panic when it comes to applications. Then I don’t do it. If I had done the application, got the interview, got the job, this would’ve been my last week at a job I hate. Madness innit!

When I'm in a job-hunting phase, I tend to once or twice a week search for suitable vacancies, well, by search, I mean open email newsletters I get with job listings in a few different sectors I've worked in, also check jobs boards for local jobs. I'll click on any interesting job titles, have a quick read through, and probably end up with half a dozen to a dozen different open tabs on my laptop. I'll note any jobs I'm especially interested in with the closing date in my diary - although I have been caught out by that a few times now, thinking I would get round to it and then the job ad's been taken down early.

Of the open tabs where I've thought, 'Yeah, I meet (most of) the criteria, I could do that job,' I'll end up procrastinating and won't get round the applying for a few of them, either because I prioritised applying for other vacancies or I simply ran out of time due to doing other life admin/medical appointments or whatever.

It does take me quite some time to do a job application, though, I don't just take a minute to click on a 'quick apply' button and send an old version of my CV, I (nearly) always write a tailored covering letter highlighting how I meet their criteria and also tinker with my CV to reword things to include their keywords and emphasise how my experience matches their requirements, so it can take me a few hours. Hence I sometimes run out of time and don't manage to apply.

If I haven't managed to apply to a job because applications are closed, I reckon that it's just not meant to be. Similarly, I figure those jobs just weren't meant for you. If you're interested and enthusiastic enough about it, you'll make time for it. If you don't like your current job maybe it's just as well that you're not rushing to get another job just for the sake of escaping your current job, maybe your subconscious is telling you not to compromise, not to jump 'from the frying pan into the fire' but to wait until you spot a really good opportunity so you can go for it.

 

[thismoment]

Hi Ann,I think you’ve got a good approach to applying for jobs. I do a lot of the same, check job boards all the time, bookmarking and reviewing jobs for suitability and remembering the deadlines. Tailoring cover letters is the best way to go to give yourself a better chance of being shortlisted. I am interested and enthusiastic about most of them just don’t get applying My current hobbies really not a good fit and I feel worse about it all the time.so really I think I just need to stop procrastinating and just apply for whatever just to get a break from the current situation.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

letter and CV thing done. want to check tomorrow before i send. still think i'm pushing my luck...