The job hunting support thread

[Cloo]

Would totally recommend making a simple spreadsheet to keep track by the way. Feels like you're making progress while you're watching it fill up with jobs you've applied for, and you can keep track of all the different dates you did stuff

Oh yeah, I have one - role, date applied, salary (stated or asked for) response, notes. Have highlighted ones that I'm keenest on and also colour coded rejections; got to interview and awaiting outcome; got to interview and then no, etc.

 

[newme]

Would totally recommend making a simple spreadsheet to keep track by the way. Feels like you're making progress while you're watching it fill up with jobs you've applied for, and you can keep track of all the different dates you did stuff

I had this after applying for like 8 this afternoon, they rang me and I was trying to find out what the fuck they were on about or where.
Ended up in a ridiculously long conversation with the recruiter person, first person in 23 years to recognise what my email address meant lol. (Reference to a metal band member from about then and definitelt not the professional email i thought i used ). Didn't expect to get a detailed explanation of tattoos, piercings, various bands etc but it was the most interesting recruitment person talk I ever had lol.
The bigged up the company, gave straight forward comments regarding culture and fit etc. Basically the first recruitment agent I've dealt with that actually seemed to be very effective at their job despite offering less than half of the other interview that's lined up. I'm actually considering if I get offers for both taking the lower one. Stress levels, confusing job descriptions and short contracts that don't make sense made a bigger impact but they helped regarding the role, about the first one to do so where I wasn't just nodding along and not caring. Despite it being for a giant multinational.

 

[muscovyduck]

I've never used a recruitment agency before. How do you get in with one? I half heartedly tried last time I was job searching but didn't have much luck

 

[newme]

I've never used a recruitment agency before. How do you get in with one? I half heartedly tried last time I was job searching but didn't have much luck

Honestly, I didn't do anything, they came at me from CV library, IME that and linkedin get the most connections/people annoying you. Update a CV on both even on a minor level and they appear from the mist. Been in a few where they took half my salary but well I needed the job, also been in Consultancies where they did basically the same but were not called recruitment agencies despite the exact same model. I can hit a bunch of "contact this person" target things without much effort now due to 2 requalifications and a 'desirable' job title in a previous job. Before that it was shit, well on linkedin, cv library got me more hits all the time. That is where I got this afternoons thing from, had another call based on it since it was just where the nick CVs from it seems. Guy said he say on it for months and then bam, wants a call setup asap.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I've never used a recruitment agency before. How do you get in with one? I half heartedly tried last time I was job searching but didn't have much luck

not sure i've ever had a lot to do with them - might have applied once or twice via agencies for things but never got any further than a 'no thanks' (including one within a few minutes that i think must have been automated)

did - in a past job - have occasions where they would ring me at work and try to interest me in something - usually something not really related to what i did, and they clearly didn't know what i did.

a viewpoint from a few years ago in this thread -

Still surprised and annoyed by how lazy recruitcunts are. I am lucky not to be urgently in need of work but they contact me, take my time on the phone/email then fail to email/call or reply to my requests for updates.

Trying to think of any industry that has ever been this lazy/inept/ignorant in my decades of business across many hated sectors

 

[Elpenor]

My experience with job-chinnies was to use one that specialised for my industry. They seemed to be ok, as they had (some) industry knowledge and despite being London based had national coverage and genuine “ins”. None of this come in and register with us bullshit, they treated candidates with respect.

They also knew how to sell a job to me, and to sell me to clients, they even found me a unicorn, an office-based job 5 miles down the road in 2020 when everything was remote (I couldn’t work remotely at that time due to reasons and they knew that). I got quite a few interviews and job offers from them.

The general recruitment job-chinnies were next to useless and were clearly cold-calling about jobs they listed if they were even real. Very rarely got anything concrete from them.

 

[Cloo]

I've never used a recruitment agency before. How do you get in with one? I half heartedly tried last time I was job searching but didn't have much luck

An agency got me the job before this one.... after a looong drought - I've registered with them again. For agencies you either send them your CV or you apply for a job advertised somewhere through them. For editorial ones they're often 'don't call us, we'll call you' as I think they have way more people on their books, but some will call you and have a chat. It may be much livlier in other sectors.

I've sent my CV to Hays a few days ago, they were quite proactive last time I contacted them but didn't turn anything up in the end but I thought worth trying them again - I think they're more likely to turn up contracts that permanent roles.

I've applied for 22 external jobs and 4 'internal' in the space of 5 weeks - last time I was redundant I was only able to find 28 to apply to over 6 months IIRC so that gives you an idea of how many more options I have now at least.

 

[a_chap]

For the first time in years, I've just replied to a job advert with my CV.

That's how bad a week I've had...

 

[muscovyduck]

Really grateful for this thread this evening, it's made me feel a lot more optimistic and less alone, thanks everyone

 

[muscovyduck]

For the spreadsheet/spam applying people: I've found it useful colour coding or clustering jobs by type. It makes it easy to see which ones I can copy and paste the most, and work through them all at the same time so I don't have to keep switching mindframes

ETA: this is working because I'm searching for all the jobs I want to apply for first, then putting them on the sheet and then once I've collected them all start applying. Rather than what I used to do which is search and apply for one at a time

 

[Cloo]

I am highlighting ones I am most interested in, but should maybe think of clustering - at the mo they basically fall into content, communications or editorial - some are a combination of two.

Haven't had any word on next stage of internal one yet, but I can imagine that if it's in person it might be tricky to find a time for all the relevant people!

The discussion about the vague but other possible internal role was interesting - she is still awaiting permission to advertise this role, she said it won't happen this week as relevant person is at some industry event, but she will let me know if/when it comes online; by the end of next week is a possibility.

I'm still a bit scared by either internal role - they are sales roles (bid writing, pursuing new clients, presentation) so significantly more intense than anything I've ever done. I've always liked having a job where I could start at 9, finish at 5 and take a lunch break, and more or less forget about it out of those hours, and I've always had that. These roles would be much more hardcore. But I bear in mind what several people have said about getting an internal role off a redundancy at the business which is that it's worth trying anything you're offered and if you hate the job, move on after a year within the business as it's so huge- so I guess if I got one of those roles and find it hard to hack maybe I start looking for an internal comms/content/marketing role after 9 months.

 

[muscovyduck]

Amazing. Just submitted a CV and cover letter via Indeed (that was the only option) now emailed back being asked to fill in a "pre-application form". So not only refilling the same info but less than I've already submitted and the promise of another form to come.

ETA: worst part is it's not even quite the same info and there's some open ended questions so not a simple copy and paste job

 

[muscovyduck]

If I can do this and a final two job applications I've done the whole list so I can forget and move on for a few days. Easier said than done though!

 

[Cloo]

I hate shit like that muscovyduck ! Also forms which ask you to send in your CV and fill in a description of each of your roles separately - dude, you have that!

I should maybe take a note of the form of applications in case I'm getting better/worse response from forms and CV as well, come to think of it.

Have gone and applied for the RIBA mat cover role, I don't think I'll get anywhere with it but I guess I'd kick myself if I didn't try.

 

[muscovyduck]

I hate shit like that muscovyduck ! Also forms which ask you to send in your CV and fill in a description of each of your roles separately - dude, you have that!

I should maybe take a note of the form of applications in case I'm getting better/worse response from forms and CV as well, come to think of it.

Have gone and applied for the RIBA mat cover role, I don't think I'll get anywhere with it but I guess I'd kick myself if I didn't try.

Oooh thats a good shout about tracking data about what you've submitted.

Fingers crossed you get somewhere with it, really difficult trying to predict the job market at the moment

 

[muscovyduck]

Amazing. Just submitted a CV and cover letter via Indeed (that was the only option) now emailed back being asked to fill in a "pre-application form". So not only refilling the same info but less than I've already submitted and the promise of another form to come.

ETA: worst part is it's not even quite the same info and there's some open ended questions so not a simple copy and paste job

I will say the last time this happened to me on indeed years ago, I put the job to the bottom of the pile (it was a temporary really shit dead end looking job), didn't end up following through on the application, and I regretted it, because I probably would have been successful and it turns out the place it was at looks really elitist but is completely the opposite and it would have been a good foot in the door. Oh well

 

[Artaxerxes]

The job market is so shit I’m this close to applying for a job I’m pretty certain I’ll get that not only pays over ten grand less than this one it pays the same as a job I was doing 6 years ago for a similar org that ended up paying me 3 or four grand more by the time I left it.

 

[Cloo]

Ugh, it is a bugger. I am lucky in that I could take less if I really had to. 10 years ago when I was in this position any less than I was one was just not going to cover childcare costs so I had no wiggle room.

Just applied to a quite interesting role doing content/editorial for investment place... one thing about being in editorial/content is you have to really worry about typos because you are sending to people who will likely notice errors. Sure I must have sent of a few of these applications with howlers, but them's the breaks. I think two applications as I've done today is my daily limit.

 

[muscovyduck]

Amazing. Just submitted a CV and cover letter via Indeed (that was the only option) now emailed back being asked to fill in a "pre-application form". So not only refilling the same info but less than I've already submitted and the promise of another form to come.

ETA: worst part is it's not even quite the same info and there's some open ended questions so not a simple copy and paste job

Filled it in and the form timed out

 

[Cloo]

Filled it in and the form timed out

I've had that happen a few times - all these forms are so fucking shonky - they have drop down menus that don't actually contain the info you need to put in but are compulsory, or the uploading document function makes them crash or something.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

For the spreadsheet/spam applying people: I've found it useful colour coding or clustering jobs by type. It makes it easy to see which ones I can copy and paste the most, and work through them all at the same time so I don't have to keep switching mindframes

ETA: this is working because I'm searching for all the jobs I want to apply for first, then putting them on the sheet and then once I've collected them all start applying. Rather than what I used to do which is search and apply for one at a time

I sort of do this when job-hunting too. Like you, I used to spot a job and stop looking and immediately apply, or apply as soon as practicable.

But then I changed what I was doing and started carrying on looking through the email newsletter or website jobs listings, because I didn't want to spend four hours working on an application form for a job with a closing date next week, only to find after I'd done it that there was a closing date tomorrow for a different job, and I'd now miss that deadline.

So I started to carry on looking, usually the beginning of the week I'd go through jobs newsletters, search the usual websites. I didn't have a spreadsheet though. I would make a note in my diary of the deadline. And I would also email myself a C&P of the job ad with a link, "subject: job ad 4/3 job title" where 4/3 or 15/3 or 1/4 was the closing date, so if I didn't have my paper diary to hand, I could also search my email inbox for job ad and I'd be able find the roles I was interested in and see their closing date at a glance. And when I got round to applying, I didn't have to try to remember where I'd seen the original job ad, because I'd C&P'd and sent myself a link.

Another way I found it helpful to sort of list the jobs/deadlines first before applying for them was that instead of knee-jerk applying for anything and everything I could possibly do as soon as I came across the job ad, I'd be looking at the jobs and deadlines and thinking there's Job A and Job B, I could do both of those. But actually, I'm more interested in working for Company A, or in Sector B, so it was making me more discerning and I was focusing and spending more time on fewer applications as a result.

I think that's where many people go wrong, using that scattergun approach, wasting time doing the bare minimum on lots of applications.

If you're keeping track and doing it more 'mindfully' (to use a twee term), then I think the quality of your applications is arguably better.

There is a downside to this more methodical rather than reactive approach to job applications, though, and that is that I've occasionally been caught out when they've closed applications early.

 

[newme]

Just had a call about another role I applied to, looking at the jobs I applied to yesterday now 5 of 8 have already rang me. 3 days a week and pay that I would very much accept for 5 days. May be a sticking point on remote depending on what their definition of key meetings cos getting there would be a huge pain but worth it is infrequently but this was the sort of role I was looking at for maybe 10 years time. Based on hitting a high enough salary that I could drop to part time. Recruiter said he was putting 3 of us forward tomorrow but the others don't have remotely my experience. Cv-library is surprisingly effective it seems.

Been looking at trains for actually travelling anywhere and it seems the Penzance - London sleeper train effectively doesn't exist anymore. Changes all through the night.

 

[muscovyduck]

I sort of do this when job-hunting too. Like you, I used to spot a job and stop looking and immediately apply, or apply as soon as practicable.

But then I changed what I was doing and started carrying on looking through the email newsletter or website jobs listings, because I didn't want to spend four hours working on an application form for a job with a closing date next week, only to find after I'd done it that there was a closing date tomorrow for a different job, and I'd now miss that deadline.

So I started to carry on looking, usually the beginning of the week I'd go through jobs newsletters, search the usual websites. I didn't have a spreadsheet though. I would make a note in my diary of the deadline. And I would also email myself a C&P of the job ad with a link, "subject: job ad 4/3 job title" where 4/3 or 15/3 or 1/4 was the closing date, so if I didn't have my paper diary to hand, I could also search my email inbox for job ad and I'd be able find the roles I was interested in and see their closing date at a glance. And when I got round to applying, I didn't have to try to remember where I'd seen the original job ad, because I'd C&P'd and sent myself a link.

Another way I found it helpful to sort of list the jobs/deadlines first before applying for them was that instead of knee-jerk applying for anything and everything I could possibly do as soon as I came across the job ad, I'd be looking at the jobs and deadlines and thinking there's Job A and Job B, I could do both of those. But actually, I'm more interested in working for Company A, or in Sector B, so it was making me more discerning and I was focusing and spending more time on fewer applications as a result.

I think that's where many people go wrong, using that scattergun approach, wasting time doing the bare minimum on lots of applications.

If you're keeping track and doing it more 'mindfully' (to use a twee term), then I think the quality of your applications is arguably better.

There is a downside to this more methodical rather than reactive approach to job applications, though, and that is that I've occasionally been caught out when they've closed applications early.

It's a serious game changer isn't it. It's helped me spot a job title/role that keeps popping up I'm a good applicant for but never thought about or applied for before, and I've caught a few of those ones where somewhere is hiring multiple people and you kind of have to prioritise an application for one role, rather than apply without thinking and realise afterwards.

So far I've got an interview and I'm in with an agency and we're only a day in, chuffed with myself

 

[newme]

It's a serious game changer isn't it. It's helped me spot a job title/role that keeps popping up I'm a good applicant for but never thought about or applied for before, and I've caught a few of those ones where somewhere is hiring multiple people and you kind of have to prioritise an application for one role, rather than apply without thinking and realise afterwards.

So far I've got an interview and I'm in with an agency and we're only a day in, chuffed with myself

Job titles also seem to weirdly have very little connection to salary and the role. I am seeing specialist roles coming in higher than lead roles, Administrator level ones are paid more than specialist roles tho they look more like technician so I have multiple searches I use to try and capture them all, definitely saw some badly named roles only because I browsed by category not by searching for a key word

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Just had a call about another role I applied to, looking at the jobs I applied to yesterday now 5 of 8 have already rang me. 3 days a week and pay that I would very much accept for 5 days. May be a sticking point on remote depending on what their definition of key meetings cos getting there would be a huge pain but worth it is infrequently but this was the sort of role I was looking at for maybe 10 years time. Based on hitting a high enough salary that I could drop to part time. Recruiter said he was putting 3 of us forward tomorrow but the others don't have remotely my experience. Cv-library is surprisingly effective it seems.

Been looking at trains for actually travelling anywhere and it seems the Penzance - London sleeper train effectively doesn't exist anymore. Changes all through the night.

I was looking at that journey not so long ago and I think there's engineering works. Might come back in holiday season?

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Job titles also seem to weirdly have very little connection to salary and the role. I am seeing specialist roles coming in higher than lead roles, Administrator level ones are paid more than specialist roles tho they look more like technician so I have multiple searches I use to try and capture them all, definitely saw some badly named roles only because I browsed by category not by searching for a key word

Conversely, I'm seeing admin roles that expect a heck of a lot for not much money.

I wonder to what extent sexism is a factor. I mean, secretarial/admin roles used to be more female dominated. Hence lower pay.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Been looking at trains for actually travelling anywhere and it seems the Penzance - London sleeper train effectively doesn't exist anymore. Changes all through the night.

I was looking at that journey not so long ago and I think there's engineering works. Might come back in holiday season?

allegedly back from end of March

Night Riviera Sleeper | Great Western Railway

Travel overnight between London Paddington and Penzance on our Night Riviera Sleeper train service. Plan your journey and buy tickets with GWR today.

www.gwr.com

 

[Cloo]

Job titles also seem to weirdly have very little connection to salary and the role. I am seeing specialist roles coming in higher than lead roles, Administrator level ones are paid more than specialist roles tho they look more like technician so I have multiple searches I use to try and capture them all, definitely saw some badly named roles only because I browsed by category not by searching for a key word

I've noticed that over the last 30 years 'executive' has changed meaning to 'low level functionary', so I ignore anything with that in the title.

My job title of 'Content Manager' can pay anything from £30-70k and can be anything from a data monkey to a person responsible for a large marketing team and strategy. I sit somewhere in the middle of that both in terms of pay and responsibility. As I've mentioned, I just have to go by business field and size to take a guess as to salary.

 

[Skim]

A fixed-term secondment into a more senior role has come up at work, so I’ve put an Expression of Interest in. Took ages to write: have aligned it with job description, role behaviours, values etc. What I like about working in the public sector is that writing this kind of thing is pretty formulaic and that my application will be judged on a transparent set of criteria, rather than the vagaries of ‘being a good fit’ or whatever.

I’ve got 11 STAR stories to cover all bases, because I overthink and over-prepare But also because I really want the job and think I have a half-decent chance.

Has anyone ever heard of STAR+? My workplace coach mentioned it but I can’t find much about it. I think it’s about adding value to your STAR story and putting your story in a wider strategy/policy context…?

 

[weltweit]

I always try to apply as soon as I see a job. This can mean my CV gets through before others and it can mean that I get an interview before other people's CVs are through, which can mean that I get an offer before other people get an interview!

In extreme situations, like the time I was told by a friend that they just quit their job, I applied before the role was even advertised, had the offer and accepted it before anyone else even knew there was a vacancy. Game set and match!