kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
joy.
the question now then is whether there is enough air power available to keep IS out of Kobane and off Sinjar mountain. I suspect there isn't..
The Islamic state
- Thread starter brogdale
- Start date
joy.
the question now then is whether there is enough air power available to keep IS out of Kobane and off Sinjar mountain. I suspect there isn't..
DownwardDog
Riding a Brompton with a power meter.
The only non-US carrier in the world that's capable of making a significant contribution is the Charles de Gaulle. Which is currently tied up in Toulon...
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
with the Iraqi Army living up to its usual stellar reputation, it appears that either significantly more airpower arrives very quickly, or IS is going to overwhelm one or the other sites.
there are lots of airstrikes happening down around Faluja and north of Baghdad as well. one armed paperhanger with an itchy arse?
how would UK posters feel about a greater UK commitment? more Tornado's in Cyprus? an AH-64 attack helicopter deployment to Iraq/Kurdistan itself? what are we prepared to spend in treasure - and are we prepared to run greater risks of [people being shot down and falling into the loving embrace of IS?
there are lots of airstrikes happening down around Faluja and north of Baghdad as well. one armed paperhanger with an itchy arse?
how would UK posters feel about a greater UK commitment? more Tornado's in Cyprus? an AH-64 attack helicopter deployment to Iraq/Kurdistan itself? what are we prepared to spend in treasure - and are we prepared to run greater risks of [people being shot down and falling into the loving embrace of IS?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Glad you're getting some laughs out of this situation.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Seems like more investment of resources now could save a lot of resources in the long run. Even if ISIS are stopped from advancing any further by airstrikes, if they decide to just stay in the areas they already control and dig in it will become a lot more difficult to do them any serious damage by air power alone. Local militias who have defended their own territories so effectively may be less willing or able to go on the offensive to root out the beardies. We could then end up with a stalemate that lasts for years.
It's not just about money of course. The longer it takes to get rid of ISIS the more misery they will have a chance to inflict, and the more chance they'll have to indoctrinate people into their quote unquote ideology. I wonder if the UK and US aren't secretly happy with the idea of containing ISIS rather than eradicating them. I'm sure they're aware that eradicating the taliban and al qaeda hasn't worked out so well for them.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Some claims YPG have broken through to mt sinjar - need to to verify. Christ i hope it's true.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
coley
Well-Known Member
I would hoy everything we have at the bastards but not boots on the ground, that just what they want, and hoy Turkey out of NATO is obvious they can't be trusted
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
the most militarily effective thing the UK could do would be to set up an AH-64 FOB in Irbil - maybe 12 Apache's, tech support, loggies, the best part of an inf Bn to secure it, and a Chinook det to help the Pesh etc.. move themselves and the nice gear we give them to where its needed.
is that too much - if the bearded loons right now think its the end of days with a Crusader Army hoving into view, does it matter whether that Crusader Army is in the air or on the ground?
theres also going to be a humanitarian catastrophe in the mountains that large numbers of people are legging it to every time IS gets close - and its winter in a couple of weeks...
What IS want is escalation. They're not fussy about how they get it.
NATO needs Turkey. Turkey does not need NATO. If Turkey leaves NATO (as it very well may) it will be of its own volition.
Of course they are. Eradicating them by force is impossible. Containment would be a victory. The West is worried about the revolution spreading to Saudi Arabia, and rightly so.
It would be a very good way to permanently alienate the entire Arab world.
So probably not the best idea then.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
wank.
if Turkey leaves NATO all its shiny aeroplanes will stop working because the US will stop selling them spares, and Turkey will instantly fall off the 'countries allowed to buy the F-35' list. which will put just a tiny little dent in the 'regional superpower' stuff peddled by some...
NATO no longer needs Turkey - its helpful to have them, and it theoretically stops them being a complete pain in the arse - but Turkey is not holding off the Russian hoards, and if its relationship with bearded fundy loons is somewhat ambiguous...
Mais non. Turkey will simply buy its military equipment elsewhere. Which it now has plenty of money to do. In the process it is likely to forge relationships and alliances which will not be in the best interests of the West.
Encore de non. NATO needs Turkey as a moderate Islamic power capable of providing a counterbalance to Iran and (in the very possible future) a hostile Arab megastate. Unfortunately for NATO, that ship might already have sailed. Should have let them in the EU in '99, they'd have been permanently onside then.
coley
Well-Known Member
No, when NATO needed Turkey, Turkey didn't oblige, even now they are only grudgingly allowing supplies into Kobane,
If Turkey had any intention of fulfilling its NATO obligations it would be allowing the coalition to establish FOBs close to the border.
coley
Well-Known Member
Ever consider if the ME creates a mega state unfriendly to Turkey?
coley
Well-Known Member
ETA, once again, I'm bloody glad Turkey wasn't allowed in the EU, they are even more self serving than the French.
Not really. Why?
coley
Well-Known Member
Think about it.
I assume you refer to the government rather than the people?
If so, you should know that the current government was only elected because the CHP failed to get Turkey into the EU. If Turkey had been admitted in '99 or thereabouts, it would still be a solidly secular, reliable ally of the West.
But Turkey was excluded for essentially racist reasons. Once they figured out what was going on, they not unreasonably gave up on the West, elected an Islamic government, and began to look eastwards to fulfill their ambitions. That is very bad news for the West. Future historians will heap deserved opprobrium on the Western politicians who lost Turkey.
I can't see any reason. I don't know what you're on about. I doubt if you do. If you do, tell me.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
go for it - anyone you'd like to mention who has a stealth fighter for sale?
you're also a fool if you think Turkey could accommodate the cost of scrapping its entire military aircraft fleet and then buying a new one from someone else.
anyway, not interested in your obsession with Turkish greatness.
This was printed in the Star a few days ago despite the somewhat pesimistic headlines some useful info on sunni tribes allied to the kurds against isis
http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-iraq-arabs-20141020-story.html
also of interest this article on the Kurds military co-ordination at the begining of the month with the Shammar tribe
http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomac...unni-tribe-joins-anti-isil-fight_360384.html?
http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-iraq-arabs-20141020-story.html
also of interest this article on the Kurds military co-ordination at the begining of the month with the Shammar tribe
http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomac...unni-tribe-joins-anti-isil-fight_360384.html?
China's got loads of them.
Would you prefer Turkey got them off China? That would be very short sighted of you--but you'd be in the company of most Western politicians.
Right. So why did you mention it then?
You often appear to just say the first thing that comes into your head, with no regard for its relevance or defensibility.
Like this:
Makes no sense. You must know it makes no sense. You don't attempt to defend your statements if anyone bothers to challenge you. You just say something like "had me say" or "can't be bothered" or "had a few drinks tonight." It makes you look daft.
coley
Well-Known Member
Tell you what, start a thread on the integrity of Turkey and mebbes we can discuss it, this is about IS.
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