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The Islamic state

Erdogan's party seem to thrive in corruption friendly environment by divide and rule rather than piety

No, lookit.

The AK is the main Islamist party.

The CHP is the main Secularist party.

The CHP ruled Turkey until 2002.

But in 2002 the AK Party was elected.

They were re-elected in 2007 and 2010.

They won the Presidential election in 2009.

They won constitutional referenda in 2007 and 2010.

In each of these victories, they defeated the Secularists.

Therefore, Turkish Secularism has been defeated.

Like I said.
 
You've talked up a lot of shit in this thread y'know. I don't know about your life obviously but I know many Turkish people in N London W/C-bourgeois. I was at a funeral for a mate last year and apart from the wailing grandmothers and the loathsome Imam who exploited my friend's death to prothlesize over his grave despite being an atheist everyone there was about as connected to the almighty as me. Hint not much.

The situation in Turkey is far different to that in N16. The residing government is pushing Islamic ideology into everyday politics, there is undoubtedly a huge clash going on between secularism and the religious zealots of Turkey. My partner goes to Turkey several times a year on business trips and has done for the last 20 years. She reports of rumbling unrest in recent years as increasingly the religious right gets more and more of a foothold in the power seat of Turkish politics. It is a potential powder keg and the events in Syria and Iraq are a potential fuse to trouble spilling into Turkey.
 
What's significant in that report is that the CHP (i.e. the Kemalist opposition) favors non-intervention.

In other words, there is no significant non-Kurdish body of opinion in Turkey which favors intervention to assist the Kurds. It's not even part of the debate.

That seems a reasonable point albiet an odd one to draw from the report.
Far much more significant is the explicit acknowledgement of how much pro-ISIL intervention there has been by the DiB and other Turkish government bodies.
 
Old ones certainly but I have noticed a bit of a beard thing going in lately. Creeping piety or fashion? Derail etc

Cypriots are atypical in many ways besides the lack of facial hair.

Anyway, as Batboy notes, what one notices in Turkey proper these days is a kind of creeping Islamicization of everyday life. Things like pubs closing down, high prices on booze, more headscarves etc. And there is indeed a great deal of unrest from the secularists. As the events of last summer proved, however, the secularists are likely to stop short of a revolution because they are, by and large, the bourgeoisie, and therefore have a great deal to lose.
 
Turkey doesn't really need any friends these days.

Western public opinion vastly over-rates its own effects on the rest of the world. There are still people who say: "Turkey would never dare do this/that/the other.... because they want to get into the EU."

Those days are over. Turkey has no reason to compromise it's own security for the sake of Western interests.

"Everybody hates us, we don't care"

The Millwall of nations since 1915.
 
"Everybody hates us, we don't care"

The Millwall of nations since 1915.

You what?

First of all, that's not what Millwall fans sing.

But more importantly, who the fuck hates Turkey?

You?

Then please explain why.

And what's 1915 got to do with it?

I've seen some bizarre posts from you, but this one really takes the biscuit. Explain yourself.
 
You what?

Who hates Turkey? You?

Then please explain why.

Everyone hates Turkey, they're the billy-no-mates of the international scene.

Other countries, even two bob ones like Bolivia, Laos and Uganda, slag them off behind their back.

Just as well they don't really need any friends.
 
You might at least have got the Millwall song right.

The correct chant is actually "no one likes us, we don't care", often (usually) misquoted as "everyone hates us...".

That was actually part of the joke, though I don't expect you to get that.

It seems appropriate for you as well as Turkey, funnily enough.
 
Not sure I agree with everything in this post, but I'd go along with this:

The Western left often suffers from a debilitating and orientalist tendency to overstate the agency of the US and relegate communities and societies affected by intervention to passive actors, not worthy of considered analysis. Indeed, it is striking the number of anti-imperialist commentaries that rely less on the experiences and dynamics of Kurdish communities and more on rehashed critiques of the logic of Great Power predation. On the one hand, this can cause the left to duplicate caricatures of ‘ugly sectarianism’ and ‘Islamic fundamentalism’ in ways that don’t seem too far off the arguments of Cameron and Obama (for some useful correctives see here and here).

On the other hand, it offers little consideration of the voices of Kurdish communities under attack since their intentions and actions simply don’t matter to opposing ‘imperialism at home’. The resultant politics can often be deleterious. We might wonder, for example, what the people of Kobanê would make of calls for ‘peaceful alternatives’ to war. This is especially important, since in Western Kurdistan (Northern Syria) Kurds are defending what is arguably the best hope for left politics in the region. Even the most cursory glance at the constitutional make-up and political achievements of Kurdish cantons would put most Western organisations to shame. Yet this week, while hunger strike sand solidarity demonstrations from Kurdish people were taking place in the UK and beyond, anti-war groups organised an entirely separate and potentially conflicting protest. The sooner the Western left abandons its penchant for reducing class to geopolitics, the sooner it can offer authentic solidarity to groups and communities that deserve and need it.

http://thedisorderofthings.com/2014...obane/?blogsub=confirming#blog_subscription-3
 
Not sure I agree with everything in this post, but I'd go along with this:
Problem is, as we've seen on this thread, that solidarity is often reduced to 'do you want your country's military to intervene?'

I'm genuinely all ears to suggestions as to what can be done that does not amount to 'moar bombs'. I agree with dwyer about 'moar bombs' - it is likely to just make things even worse.
 
Problem is, as we've seen on this thread, that solidarity is often reduced to 'do you want your country's military to intervene?'

I'm genuinely all ears to suggestions as to what can be done that does not amount to 'moar bombs'. I agree with dwyer about 'moar bombs' - it is likely to just make things even worse.

Here are some small practical steps that can be taken that were mentioned on another thread:

1) Support the demos going on daily in London.. you'll find out details on twitter especially from @hevallo
2) send money to http://www.heyvasor.com.en or http://www.heyvasor.com/en/alikari/
Or donate to:Kurdish Red Crescent, Fairfax Hall 11 Portland Gardens London N4 IUH
Registered Charity No: 10 93 741 Sort Code: 20 46 60 AC: 40 91 23 87
3) join the campaign to decriminalise the PKK in the UK. Even though they are in the frontline against ISIS they remain illegal in the UK,US and Europe and members are regularly harassed here. http://delistthepkk.com/
4) sign this petiton and get others to do so to asap https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petitio...vid_Cameron_We_call_on_you_to_delist_the_PKK/
5) if you are on FB join the Kurdish Revolution Info Group to find out more about the revolution going on in the Kurdish region
 
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