That seems to be their thinking, yes.
The Islamic state
- Thread starter brogdale
- Start date
That seems to be their thinking, yes.
coley
Well-Known Member
coley
Well-Known Member
Nice bunch eh?
I'm no fan of Erdogan, but he's doing the right thing here. It's not IS who've been blowing up Turkish shopping malls for the last 20 years.
coley
Well-Known Member
And yet here's an opportunity to get the Kurds 'onside' and yet Erdogan seizes the chance to have them ethnically cleansed, gives an insight as to what the Kurds were fighting.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
They are denouncing anyone who wants to put their body on the line as engaging in internecine imperialist war. They are again pretending it's 1936. Some are pretending it's 736 - but they're all pretending.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
These days?
Some went ICC some didn't. The former didn't last long and came out denouncing them. Silly games all round.
Dev Sol have recently been unmasked as a front for Ergenekon.
found some more on the specific charges and reference to the motion debate here
http://www.goodmorningturkey.com/chp-leader-kilicdaroglu-turkish-army-stay-syria/
would there be an online turkish version of hansard or recomendations where to get transcripts of the debate welcomed.
The debates moved on a bit, wrt Ul Huq but worth pointing out that the blowback from that period of misadventure is still being felt in the Swat Valley and Bihar.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
more than that, not only is he killing any current or future éntanté with the now hugely popular Kurds stone dead, he's pissing off pretty much all of the regional powers, Europe and the US while being allies with a 'power' unlikely to see out the decade.
a strategy not unakin to joining the Axis powers in January 1945.
clever chap...
I suspect Dev Sol are finished now.
There are other far-left groups still active, but their influence is limited to localities where they're needed for protection against Islamists.
Amazingly enough, he appears to prioritize Turkish national security above Western public opinion. The bounder.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
News of an airstrike on mosul - big big news if true. The peshmerga/sunni tribes/YPG agreement on the ground that may be following up...
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
Apparently Kurds were marching in many European cities last night in protest. Here in Hamburg they marched on the central mosque which ended up in running battles between "Salifists" (according to Der Spiegel) and Kurds:
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...-zwischen-kurden-und-salafisten-a-995972.html
Given the amount of Turks in Germany as well (who don't seem to have been targeted by the Kurds last night) and add the sometimes heavy handed nature of the German police when it comes to foreigners, this has the potential to get very messy.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...-zwischen-kurden-und-salafisten-a-995972.html
Given the amount of Turks in Germany as well (who don't seem to have been targeted by the Kurds last night) and add the sometimes heavy handed nature of the German police when it comes to foreigners, this has the potential to get very messy.
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
Demo right now in Kings Cross, blocking the Eurostar entrance.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
he may have that as his objective, but he's going about it in a spectacularly self-defeating way.
Turkey now has more enemies, and fewer friends, and more instability on its borders. like i said, clever guy...
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The attackers were apparently chechen nutjobs.Apparently Kurds were marching in many European cities last night in protest. Here in Hamburg they marched on the central mosque which ended up in running battles between "Salifists" (according to Der Spiegel) and Kurds:
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deuts...-zwischen-kurden-und-salafisten-a-995972.html
Given the amount of Turks in Germany as well (who don't seem to have been targeted by the Kurds last night) and add the sometimes heavy handed nature of the German police when it comes to foreigners, this has the potential to get very messy.
Ultra-nationalists attacked kurdish centres in turkey last night.
Turkey doesn't really need any friends these days.
Western public opinion vastly over-rates its own effects on the rest of the world. There are still people who say: "Turkey would never dare do this/that/the other.... because they want to get into the EU."
Those days are over. Turkey has no reason to compromise it's own security for the sake of Western interests.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Iraqi Peshmerga want to enter from turkey. Turkey doesn't want armed kurds walking all over it's nominal territory.
coley
Well-Known Member
How on earth is he prioritising TNS by encouraging ethnic cleansing? By stopping Kurds reinforcing Kobane and by all reports, spending the last few years encouraging ISIS.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Just catching up. Erdogan got his apology, as did other countries leaders, as Biden made a bunch of phone calls trying to patch up the damage from his habit of speaking truth in a manner incompatible with diplomacy.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...nt-joe-biden-apologize-for-telling-the-truth/
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ology-tour-with-phone-call-to-saudi-official/
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...-s-suggestion-it-backed-extremist-groups.html
coley
Well-Known Member
Aye, Turkey might end up regretting its actions if the whole region goes tits up
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The whole region has gone tits up.
He wants to smash the PKK, as do 95% of his non-Kurdish countrymen.
elbows
Well-Known Member
There was a somewhat sensible response to this in the Guardian on Monday:
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...is-getting-harder-to-draw-just-ask-naomi-wolf
It's not perfect and I certainly disagree with the idea that the power stuff is some new thing that started in 2001, rather than simply becoming more obvious and turned up a few gears at that point. But I am tired and it saves me having to waffle on far too much about conspiracy theories and scepticism myself right now. Well perhaps just a little...
I will say I'm not terribly surprised Wolf came out with this. A lot of people who start out with appropriate levels of scepticism are derailed by the desire to tell too simple a story, or to obtain a level of certainty about 'what really happened' that is utterly mismatched with the quality of information (especially insider info) they have available to them. It can be hard to stop a possibility that springs into your mind, that is very dark or interesting or seems to offer useful explanations, from gaining undue prominence in the overall worldview.
Personally, after a couple of lost initial years, I figured out how to deal with it when it comes to all events and chapters in the 'war on terror'. Look at how they use it, and what opportunities they try to make of it, and tackle that. How they use it, and how thick the propaganda is laid on (and the timing) is what raises much suspicion, but the trick is where to then point that suspicion, what use is to be made of this fuel? Its completely understandable that such suspicions may lead to a complete obsession with whether they not only use it, but also create it very directly. But however tempting it may be to lurk long in that territory, that way is a dead end for so many reasons, which I hardly need to tell u75 about. Gotta point it elsewhere, don't get lost in the darkness.
Hell I enjoyed the film wag the dog but only the darkest, most paranoid corners of my mind would take it literally, and those corners don't dictate my worldview.
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