The Islamic state
- Thread starter brogdale
- Start date
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
Some of it is family pressure. Some fathers are quite happy to allow their sons to go off, rather than themselves, to become martyrs for the cause, and bring 'honour' to their families. Sounds like the Bellow line, 'the fathers were no fathers, and the sons, no sons.'
coley
Well-Known Member
Hardly, they embrace all additions of modernity in pursuance of their objectives.
coley
Well-Known Member
They don't seem to want to fight or drive into subservience anyone other than their fellow Arabs, no cries of the great satan, destroy Israel etc, or if they are it's very muted?
Humberto
Relax
The executions of journalists and aid workers from America and Britain seemed designed to provoke them, and it worked.
coley
Well-Known Member
Depends on which level you look at it, was it a warning to keep out? a provocation to draw us in? Or a general statement that no westerners are safe in the region?
Their actions are subject to many interpretations given they are a mixture of very clever opportunists and religious nut jobs.
SovietArmy
Well-Known Member
Call me dump but I don't believing in this.
not-bono-ever
meh
Its propaganda- you can interpret it anyway you like - thats the purpose - we are not to be fucked with -over and over again - even hitler outlined propaganda being most efficient when a few points are repeated over and over again.innit
8ball
Decolonise colons!
coley
Well-Known Member
No, I think there are some very clever people amongst their leadership, people who are keeping a very low profile, people who will allow the violent extremists, and the ordinary people, to take the blows and after a while come along as the 'moderate' wing of ISIS looking for 'dialogue' to end the suffering,
And,surprise,surprise the 'settlement' will comprise a redrawing of the ME map which will satisfy ISIS, Turkey and the oil interests of the west. While the Kurds? Who actually cares?
I don't "respect" their beliefs in the sense that I agree with them. Or in the sense that I find them anything other than entirely repugnant.
But I do "respect" their beliefs in the sense that I recognize them as profoundly and passionately held, as their primary motivation, and as something that observers must take seriously if they are to be defeated.
coley
Well-Known Member
Then hopefully, by then, the leadership will be a collection of half wits from Brixton and LA and other points west and the real population of the areas affected will realise how they are being manipulated.
The idea is to deal with the "near enemy" first, and settle accounts with the "distant enemy" later.
But they know that the best way for them to win recruits, and also to achieve their strategic objectives, is to engage in close combat on the ground with American soldiers. That's what they want to do. That's why they release these videos, trying to goad America into an invasion.
The stupidest thing American can do is give them what they want. Watch America do it.
coley
Well-Known Member
Trying to make sense of your reply, then I had a listen to the lib dem conference, sorry phil, your outed
8ball
Decolonise colons!
They're a bit cagey about it so far, but I guess we'll see.
Hmm. I suppose that's possible, but it would alienate a lot of the IS rank and file, to the point that they'd probably take up arms against their moderate leaders.
Personally, I think that they really are trying to conquer the entire Muslim world, and that they won't stop until they've achieved that goal. In fact they won't stop even then. Not that I think they'll get that far, but they seem genuinely chiliastic to me.
A provocation to draw us in.
Just take a look at YouTube--the Vice reports are actually pretty good. The reports from IS territory consist of one swivel-eyed, bearded fanatic after another screaming to the camera: "America! Send us your soldiers! The ones we humiliated in Fallujah! Send them back to us now!"
They are literally begging for a scrap with the USA. They dream of it. They pray for it. The only thing that would bring them greater delight would be a scrap with Israel. But Israel's leaders are too smart to give it to them.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
I think the problem there is that IS dream of fighting a certain version of the US - the one that bimbled around in Humvees and got blown up on Youtube. It is well within the power of the Yanks to just turn up in IS-controlled areas, smash everything, kill a load of people and then just leave everyone else to starve - which IS would probably find less amusing.
If its the ideology that is important then that action might just help it spread.
ISIS is toast. They're surrounded by enemies in the region. And now even Canada is getting in on it. It's just a matter of time. They won't be destroyed but will be "degraded" until they're of little threat to anyone except the poor souls who live in the small areas they can manage to hang onto.
coley
Well-Known Member
Can't see it, too much risk of capture and subsequent propaganda.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
...thus reinforcing the victim mentality and narrative of the plucky underdog fighting for god, which means bombs in cities.
There is some argument for keeping them going for as long as possible so they suck in all the basket case jihadis from all over the globe to fight out in the open in one place. Make it look like they have a winnable war, let the brave flock to their ranks then crush them. A bit like that kid's book with the wasps and the giant jam sandwich.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Inevitably they'll get hold of a pilot sooner or later. If the US is wise they won't bother telling anyone, as seems to be the tactic with kidnappings these days.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Obnoxiousness
>-->))).>
But why is Britain bombing?
It's like attempting to kill off an ants nest in the garden using a hammer. You're gonna kill a dozen ants at a time, but the whole nest is never going to be destroyed. If the ants are not actually inside the house, why do we need to do anything about them??
Cameron would argue that the nest of ants will eventually reach the house... well, maybe that is the time to actually defend the house.
It's like attempting to kill off an ants nest in the garden using a hammer. You're gonna kill a dozen ants at a time, but the whole nest is never going to be destroyed. If the ants are not actually inside the house, why do we need to do anything about them??
Cameron would argue that the nest of ants will eventually reach the house... well, maybe that is the time to actually defend the house.
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