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The Islamic state

likesfish said:
Bombs have a bomb by date and Cyprus is a nice place to hang out?
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Perhaps that's true.

Why does an island nation need bombs? When was the last time Britain had to defend itself? The 1940s.... When was the last time Britain was invaded? 1066..... When was the last unprovoked terrorist action against London? 1666?

I don't see ISIS provoking Norway or Mexico... why does Britain have to be the international deputy sheriff?
 
Obnoxiousness said:
Perhaps that's true.

Why does an island nation need bombs? When was the last time Britain had to defend itself? The 1940s.... When was the last time Britain was invaded? 1066..... When was the last unprovoked terrorist action against London? 1666?

I don't see ISIS provoking Norway or Mexico... why does Britain have to be the international deputy sheriff?
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It's cultural we've been fucking about the Middle East since 1090ad why stop now :)
 
Im not comfortable with the global copper useage - we are not some kind of international policeman/ dispensing an objective rule of law - everything we do is motivated by self interest ultimately - more like a security guard, siting in an office , ensuring the corporations assets do not get nicked
 
Freedom is a common theme in speeches that justify violence. Along with examples of how the other side are despicable and untrustworthy.

Both sides need to look at how fucking stupid they are.
 
Humberto said:
Nothing clever about them. The only effect was to draw America and Britain against them. The executions were effectively a declaration of war. Why? Religious fanaticism.
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It might well be that the executions were for the benefit of ISIS fighters themselves, rather than a western audience. Reminding them all of what super scary badasses they all are, that they've got the power to chop the heads of unarmed aid workers.

I suspect more people are drawn to ISIS by the opportunities to rape, pillage and slaughter than by religious devotion.
 
Beheading is an expression of power, 'look at all those pitiful westerners begging and pleading for just one life, see them dance and shriek, the tantrums on the paper front pages, the grovelling politicians, they can do nothing, they are weak, powerless. They can't stop us. This is our victory'.

They cut heads off because it's easier than storming the pentagon. It's outrage at a cheap cost.
 
I see Erdogan is demanding a no-fly zone along the Turkish border to protect Syrian refugees, and military action against Assad's forces as well as ISIS.

Both of these are important. Even if Syrian and Kurdish forces can repel ISIS it will cost them dear, leaving Assad with a golden opportunity to move in and crush them. We cannot ask these people to fight our war for us then throw them to the wolves once they've outlived their usefulness, like we did with Iraqi rebels during the first gulf war.

But in the meantime, Erdogan is effectively holding the town of Kobane to ransom until he gets what he wants. I doubt the US will allow themselves to be bullied like that, and while this political stalemate plays out our supposed common enemy is on the verge of destroying a vital pocket of Kurdish resistance. Not to mention thousands of the innocent people we are supposedly fighting this war to protect. The inaction of the Turkish state in recent days shows nicely how all parties are in this for their own narrow interests and actually providing justice and safety for the people of Iraq and Syria is just a convenient pretext.
 
Dogsauce said:
Beheading is an expression of power, 'look at all those pitiful westerners begging and pleading for just one life, see them dance and shriek, the tantrums on the paper front pages, the grovelling politicians, they can do nothing, they are weak, powerless. They can't stop us. This is our victory'.

They cut heads off because it's easier than storming the pentagon. It's outrage at a cheap cost.
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It's not religious behaviour though is it? Fanatical yes, but the only religion these people have is the worship of bloodshed.
 
Recent air strikes near Kobane have apparently damaged 'at least four' ISIS vehicles. That'll teach them :rolleyes:
 
SpookyFrank said:
It's not religious behaviour though is it? Fanatical yes, but the only religion these people have is the worship of bloodshed.
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I don't really buy that, If it's just bloodshed, why pick this side, why not any other side? Why is only one religious group getting involved? Why travel thousands of miles to take part, there are bloodier opportunities in Mexico for example. There is a driver for this behaviour, a sense of injustice, a sense of shared values and ideals.
 
There's been steadily building reports of ISIS withdrawals from much of Kobane this morning. I held back on posting about them until more was confirmed - but now multiple different sources giving different reports of this taking place. The most interesting report this happening overnight as YPG/YPJ fighters with local knowledge drew ISIS into a 'mousetrap' of booby trapped buildings and crossfire set ups i.e at that point unrelated to escalation in airstrikes - but that the latter have now prevented ISIS from bring up the heavy weaponry they would normally deploy at that point in this situation.
 
phildwyer said:
In other words, he's acting in the best interests of his country. Which is what he's supposed to do. Turkey has nothing to gain from a war against IS. But it has much to gain from the destruction of the PKK and Assad.

Is his policy ethical? Hell no. Is it effective realpolitik? Yep. It's hard to blame him for this really, since everyone else involved is playing the same game.
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Its pretty much the same conceit that Ul-Huq displayed in 80s Pakistan towards allowing jihadists to use his country as a staging post against Afganistan and Kashmir.
 
This is the YPG defense unit's media centre's account of last night (I'm not embedding the tweet as it doesn't show properly for those using tapatalk, even though it looks nicer for those on pcs and laptops).
 
butchersapron said:
There's been steadily building reports of ISIS withdrawals from much of Kobane this morning. I held back on posting about them until more was confirmed - but now multiple different sources giving different reports of this taking place. The most interesting report this happening overnight as YPG/YPJ fighters with local knowledge drew ISIS into a 'mousetrap' of booby trapped buildings and crossfire set ups i.e at that point unrelated to escalation in airstrikes - but that the latter have now prevented ISIS from bring up the heavy weaponry they would normally deploy at that point in this situation.
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With a little bit of planning you can turn a town into a meat grinder for anyone who attacks as we practiced to defeat the soviet hordes. Unfortunately the soviet hordes response was " hmmm those villages are only kilo tonnes apart". Without massive amount of heavy weapons or human waves your fucked attacking a prepared town.
 
10 years ago to the day that Ken Bigley was beheaded. Maybe interesting to read the comments on here at the time - knowing what we know now and the situation in Iraq then.

edit: no it's not. Beyond demonstrating we've always had idiots on here.
 
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butchersapron said:
10 years ago to the day that Ken Bigley was beheaded. Maybe interesting to read the comments on here at the time - knowing what we know now and the situation in Iraq then.

edit: no it's not. Beyond demonstrating we've always had idiots on here.
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Apparantly Blair is to blame and the Americans probably killed him in an air strike lol
 
agricola said:
It is well within the power of the Yanks to just turn up in IS-controlled areas, smash everything, kill a load of people and then just leave everyone else to starve.
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Like they did in Vietnam?

What I mean is: it's physically in their power, but it's not politically in their power.

The result would be the complete and permanent alienation of the entire Muslim world. In fact, such behavior on the part of the US might well be the spark that finally lit the flame of the Saudi Revolution, which everyone agrees would be the real game-changer.

And that, I suspect, is why IS want it to happen. We must remember, they don't mind dying.
 
TomUS said:
ISIS is toast. They're surrounded by enemies in the region. And now even Canada is getting in on it. It's just a matter of time. They won't be destroyed but will be "degraded" until they're of little threat to anyone except the poor souls who live in the small areas they can manage to hang onto.
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And after that, the real war will begin.
 
Obnoxiousness said:
Perhaps that's true.

Why does an island nation need bombs? When was the last time Britain had to defend itself? The 1940s.... When was the last time Britain was invaded? 1066..... When was the last unprovoked terrorist action against London? 1666?

I don't see ISIS provoking Norway or Mexico... why does Britain have to be the international deputy sheriff?
Click to expand...

Quite. Especially when there is virtually no popular support for British intervention. If the population has to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into war, things are unlikely to end well for the warmongers.
 
Obnoxiousness said:
But why is Britain bombing?

It's like attempting to kill off an ants nest in the garden using a hammer. You're gonna kill a dozen ants at a time, but the whole nest is never going to be destroyed. If the ants are not actually inside the house, why do we need to do anything about them??

Cameron would argue that the nest of ants will eventually reach the house... well, maybe that is the time to actually defend the house.
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The analogy only works if you imagine millions of other ants rushing to the defense of the nest under attack.

What IS want is escalation. They think they're living in the Last Days, they look forward to the coming of Allah: they are chiliasts. They want the whole Muslim world to fight the whole infidel world.

We think we can defeat them by killing them. We can't. That will produce more of them, many more. That's exactly what they fucking well want us to do.

I don't know how much more obvious this could be frankly.
 
Dogsauce said:
Beheading is an expression of power, 'look at all those pitiful westerners begging and pleading for just one life, see them dance and shriek, the tantrums on the paper front pages, the grovelling politicians, they can do nothing, they are weak, powerless. They can't stop us. This is our victory'.

They cut heads off because it's easier than storming the pentagon. It's outrage at a cheap cost.
Click to expand...

It's Shock-and-Awe. They think they're doing to us what we did to them. Hence the orange jumpsuits.
 
SpookyFrank said:
But in the meantime, Erdogan is effectively holding the town of Kobane to ransom until he gets what he wants. I doubt the US will allow themselves to be bullied like that, and while this political stalemate plays out our supposed common enemy is on the verge of destroying a vital pocket of Kurdish resistance. Not to mention thousands of the innocent people we are supposedly fighting this war to protect. The inaction of the Turkish state in recent days shows nicely how all parties are in this for their own narrow interests and actually providing justice and safety for the people of Iraq and Syria is just a convenient pretext.
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First of all, the Turkish people want absolutely no part of this war. They're not stupid. Turkish public opinion is violently against intervention. So any leader who gets Turkey into this mess seriously does risk being torn to pieces by an angry mob.

Secondly, Erdogan is playing this exactly right. He sees it as a golden opportunity to eliminate the most awkward thorn in Turkey's side for decades: the PKK. That's good realpolitik, and if he can pull it off he'll be a national hero.
 
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